Originally Posted by sanicom3205

I agree with you totally up until the last paragraph. I'm not sure where you work, but I get a different feeling from the younger pilot group at my shop. We are banding together as this is all going down, and I have read many vowing to watch out for the pilot group going forward. That means number 15,000 to number 1. That mentally really doesn't exist at the top of the list, but it does for the guys who are hitting the streets now. Hopefully, we can say the days of "you'll be senior one day son" are gone.

That's not to say that there aren't some economic collapses where furloughs are inevitable. I just don't think this is one of them. Every airline has stated a willingness to return to pre-covid levels when this is all through, and that requires current and qualified pilots. It's the reason you are seeing new programs such as furlough training options, where the company gets to keep its pilots ready to fly the second they need them. Allowing management to get away with programs like that, rather than keep pilots employed is exactly what unions are supposed to be for. Unity is, unfortunately, a myth for many in the old cadre in this industry.

Originally Posted by havick206

Intent to return to pre Covid levels, and the passengers/revenue being there are two different things.

Not saying it won’t happen eventually, but it’s not a guarantee either.

Originally Posted by neverposts

"Big IF that there will be an AA in 8 years."

More like 2 years and I've known the virus was coming for TEN YEARS. But keep believing whatever you want. not like there is a formula or anything...

Originally Posted by sanicom3205

I agree with you totally up until the last paragraph. I'm not sure where you work, but I get a different feeling from the younger pilot group at my shop. We are banding together as this is all going down, and I have read many vowing to watch out for the pilot group going forward. That means number 15,000 to number 1. That mentally really doesn't exist at the top of the list, but it does for the guys who are hitting the streets now. Hopefully, we can say the days of "you'll be senior one day son" are gone.

That's not to say that there aren't some economic collapses where furloughs are inevitable. I just don't think this is one of them. Every airline has stated a willingness to return to pre-covid levels when this is all through, and that requires current and qualified pilots. It's the reason you are seeing new programs such as furlough training options, where the company gets to keep its pilots ready to fly the second they need them. Allowing management to get away with programs like that, rather than keep pilots employed is exactly what unions are supposed to be for. Unity is, unfortunately, a myth for many in the old cadre in this industry.

Originally Posted by flybywp

There's a difference between banding together as a group (a great thing) and preventing furloughs with concessions. It just doesn't work. I'm all for protecting the pilot group as a whole but by taking concessions you're hurting the entire pilot group in the long term, instead of just a few in the short term. So the best option is to hold the line and prevent changes to the contract. Otherwise, it'll be another decade before we get those concessions back.

I also disagree how furloughs are not inevitable right now. When ANY company loses 80% of its revenue, they start drastically cutting costs and laying off staff. Airlines are adjusting their workforces for the current and projected demand, just like any other smart company would. This is no different than any other downturn in this industry (actually worse if you want to get technical). Until passengers return in large numbers, I don't see a future without furloughs. And I think a lot of people are being overly optimistic on how quickly that demand will return.

Originally Posted by deraa

What’s the latest at PDT?

Originally Posted by standardrate

either way the union didnt have to do any of this like the other airlines and just say sucks to suck take the furlough. but instead them and the company came up with this agreement and i think we should all be very proud.
great job to PDT MEC and management

Originally Posted by standardrate

ya apparently got a deal where only affected pilots(downgrades&furloughs) are consolidated each month in regards to cost savings. depending on how many people take a voluntary furlough, early out, half line, half rsv line they see how many guys and gals they have extra and what to do with them(i assume give them half rsv lines or the month off). basically will be a part time job for the affected pilots(from my understanding).
either way the union didnt have to do any of this like the other airlines and just say sucks to suck take the furlough. but instead them and the company came up with this agreement and i think we should all be very proud.
great job to PDT MEC and management