Piedmont Airlines News & Rumors
06-15-2019, 05:26 PM
#4631
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 4,601
No, I’m saying AA came to PDT (and the other WO) and said, y’all suck and you need to fix it. We will give you “x” amount to fix it.
They should have worked together to get big changes, but I understand hind sight is 20/20 and understand why PSA took it.
PDT management should/could have negotiated and said, we need x and y.....counter offered. But instead rolled over and just offered us the crap AA 1st round offered us.
But the pilots had no negotiating power after the managements took the deal. Though had the unions all refused together, that would have given WO management much more leverage against AA and they could have countered AA. But that didn’t happen.
But once PSA took the money, the 3 WO lost all leverage they had.
PDT NC didn’t know this yet, they (rightly so) countered. But when getting the response they got, they learned it wasn’t a negotiation, they rightly took the money.
But if you think the pilots had any negotiating power or could have got anything better than what we got....you would be negotiating with a lower paycheck until we all lost our jobs and would never have gotten anything.
They should have worked together to get big changes, but I understand hind sight is 20/20 and understand why PSA took it.
PDT management should/could have negotiated and said, we need x and y.....counter offered. But instead rolled over and just offered us the crap AA 1st round offered us.
But the pilots had no negotiating power after the managements took the deal. Though had the unions all refused together, that would have given WO management much more leverage against AA and they could have countered AA. But that didn’t happen.
But once PSA took the money, the 3 WO lost all leverage they had.
PDT NC didn’t know this yet, they (rightly so) countered. But when getting the response they got, they learned it wasn’t a negotiation, they rightly took the money.
But if you think the pilots had any negotiating power or could have got anything better than what we got....you would be negotiating with a lower paycheck until we all lost our jobs and would never have gotten anything.
They offered us virtually no strings attached pay raises on top of the 125 and 150% accelerated pay credit we also just got. What reason at all would there of been to say no? PSA isn’t in the same boat in many respects as Piedmont and Envoy. All 3 airlines are completely different with at times very dissimilar needs. The only string we all have attached is that we’re WO regionals flying for the same company.
06-15-2019, 05:30 PM
#4632
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 616
Go ask what’s happening at Envoy. Envoy mngmt thought they needed to agree to more than they needed to. They backed out of their agreement in principle. I’d bet money that little old Piedmont taking just the raises helped push Envoy mngmt into reneging and not offering nearly as much as they did. I think Had we been patient and continued to pushback, Envoy would’ve gotten their deal and we could’ve said we want the same. Oh well, keep waiting for that flow. We had no leverage blah blah blah.
06-15-2019, 05:37 PM
#4633
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 4,601
Go ask what’s happening at Envoy. Envoy mngmt thought they needed to agree to more than they needed to. They backed out of their agreement in principle. I’d bet money that little old Piedmont taking just the raises helped push Envoy mngmt into reneging and not offering nearly as much as they did. I think Had we been patient and continued to pushback, Envoy would’ve gotten their deal and we could’ve said we want the same. Oh well, keep waiting for that flow. We had no leverage blah blah blah.
06-15-2019, 09:46 PM
#4635
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 336
Could be worse, could be at envoy:
June 15th 2019
Fellow Pilots,
On Tuesday I signed an Agreement in Principle, along with the Envoy Senior Labor Relations Counsel and management's lead negotiator, to secure a comprehensive compensation improvement package for the pilots at Envoy. The Agreement in Principle was reached following a day of intense negotiations and was predicated on previous negotiating meetings. In preparing for the final round of negotiations it was made clear that neither the MEC, nor the pilots at Envoy, would accept any deal which left us lagging in compensation or had concessions attached to compensation improvements.
Once an Agreement in Principle is signed, the significant terms of an agreement are in place and the negotiating process is essentially over, with the tenets of the deal in place. The next step is drafting and editing contract language implementing the essential terms of the agreement. Sometimes this drafting process takes time, however Envoy management seemed determined to alleviate the mounting pressure they are experiencing to increase compensation and quality of life at Envoy due to the recent ratification of pay rate increases at Piedmont, as well as the PSA deal that was inked in early April. As such, we expected a language pass to be presented to us quickly. After the Agreement in Principle was signed, I called an MEC meeting via teleconference for Wednesday night in anticipation that draft contract language would be prepared and ready for evaluation by the MEC.
On Wednesday, the Company sent their first language pass derived from the Agreement in Principle that was signed by both parties on Tuesday. The language arrived less than two hours prior to the MEC teleconference, so there was not adequate time to thoroughly review and make technical corrections to the language reflecting our agreement prior to the teleconference. During the teleconference I updated the MEC on the progress of negotiations. Although the Agreement in Principle doesn't provide every provision we were seeking, it is a document that we found satisfactory and agreed to, and one that I believe the MEC would ratify.
The Agreement in Principle that Envoy management and your MEC Chairman agreed to includes many positive provisions for the pilots at Envoy without concessions. Some of the highlights are below:
Pay rates would be increased to a level slightly higher than those at PSA with retroactivity to May 15.
Pay-out upon flow through or retirement of accrued sick banks
Improvements to Reserve work rules which provide increased time off and more predictability
A reduction of pilot contribution to health care costs
Several Letters of Intent and agreements including Grievance Settlements which would provide a remedy for the affected pilots
All the recent progress came to a screeching halt late on Friday afternoon.
On Thursday, the MEC Officers, Contract Compliance Committee Chairman, and Envoy ALPA Senior Labor Relations Counsel worked throughout the day to vet and edit the language pass from the company. Late Thursday, we transmitted our revised language, which consisted of minor edits and clean-ups, back to the Company for their review. Then on Friday, I was told by Management's lead negotiator that the Company would be backing out of the Agreement in Principle that was agreed to earlier this week. The excuse given was that AAG had told Envoy management that they had exceeded their authority. At no time during this round of negotiations, and at no time before the Company signed the AIP on Tuesday, did Envoy indicate that their authority was limited or subject to the veto of AAG. This after the fact excuse to welsh on our agreement is in no way consistent with good faith negotiations.
This isn't the first time that our management has demonstrated bad faith in negotiations – a recent example being the failed Reserve Rules change proposals from negotiations ending in January. However, the impact of management reneging on this Agreement in Principle is far more damaging. The credibility of our management has been completely undermined by their actions this week, leaving us unable to trust that they will follow through on future agreements. This behavior is unacceptable.
Whether or not AAG is stepping in to rescind our agreement, or Envoy management ever actually conferred with AAG when they claimed to, is immaterial at this point. They made an agreement and are now repudiating it in bad faith. We cannot continue to pursue good faith negotiations with a management team that is incapable of following through on the agreements they make with the Association.
Envoy management is either unable to identify the mounting challenges facing the viability of the operation, or they are engaged in an effort to turn the pilots against their representatives in a desperate attempt at union busting. It is often assumed that management's actions are nefarious, but this week's events demonstrate that they simply are not committed to negotiate in good faith. Only when AAG recognizes and acknowledges that the pilots of Envoy demand an agreement that provides pay parity relative to the industry measured in real compensation, and not just pay rate tables, will it be possible for us to view it as a partner acting in good faith to offer a career path that meets industry standards. My profound disappointment in our management is shared by your LEC Representatives, the other MEC Officers, and volunteers who work tirelessly to represent the best interests of the pilot group day in and day out.
Originally, when we sent our update last Friday, a communication explaining why we hadn't come to an agreement was in development and slated for distribution. We determined that the signing of an Agreement in Principle, which represented the framework for tangible, durable, ratifiable, and much needed compensation improvements, eliminated the need to distribute that communication. Now that the company has reneged on the signed Agreement in Principle, it seems prudent to share with the pilot group the reasons why we are where we are. Following the transmittal of this update, we are also distributing a communication which was originally slated for distribution earlier this week.
You have the right to be angry.
You have the right to be disappointed.
Your management has failed you yet again.
You deserve proper compensation.
You deserve acceptable work rules.
Your Local Representatives are advocating for you tirelessly.
Your Officers and Committee Volunteers continue to focus on providing the services the pilots require.
I will not rest in my representation of the pilot group, my responsibility and duty to you.
It is never pleasant to be the bearer of bad news. Today marks the latest unwarranted disparagement of Envoy Pilots in a series of adversarial and toxic interactions initiated by Envoy management. We ask you in the meantime to continue to exhibit professionalism.
In Unity,
Steven Pallai
ENY MEC Chairman
June 15th 2019
Fellow Pilots,
On Tuesday I signed an Agreement in Principle, along with the Envoy Senior Labor Relations Counsel and management's lead negotiator, to secure a comprehensive compensation improvement package for the pilots at Envoy. The Agreement in Principle was reached following a day of intense negotiations and was predicated on previous negotiating meetings. In preparing for the final round of negotiations it was made clear that neither the MEC, nor the pilots at Envoy, would accept any deal which left us lagging in compensation or had concessions attached to compensation improvements.
Once an Agreement in Principle is signed, the significant terms of an agreement are in place and the negotiating process is essentially over, with the tenets of the deal in place. The next step is drafting and editing contract language implementing the essential terms of the agreement. Sometimes this drafting process takes time, however Envoy management seemed determined to alleviate the mounting pressure they are experiencing to increase compensation and quality of life at Envoy due to the recent ratification of pay rate increases at Piedmont, as well as the PSA deal that was inked in early April. As such, we expected a language pass to be presented to us quickly. After the Agreement in Principle was signed, I called an MEC meeting via teleconference for Wednesday night in anticipation that draft contract language would be prepared and ready for evaluation by the MEC.
On Wednesday, the Company sent their first language pass derived from the Agreement in Principle that was signed by both parties on Tuesday. The language arrived less than two hours prior to the MEC teleconference, so there was not adequate time to thoroughly review and make technical corrections to the language reflecting our agreement prior to the teleconference. During the teleconference I updated the MEC on the progress of negotiations. Although the Agreement in Principle doesn't provide every provision we were seeking, it is a document that we found satisfactory and agreed to, and one that I believe the MEC would ratify.
The Agreement in Principle that Envoy management and your MEC Chairman agreed to includes many positive provisions for the pilots at Envoy without concessions. Some of the highlights are below:
Pay rates would be increased to a level slightly higher than those at PSA with retroactivity to May 15.
Pay-out upon flow through or retirement of accrued sick banks
Improvements to Reserve work rules which provide increased time off and more predictability
A reduction of pilot contribution to health care costs
Several Letters of Intent and agreements including Grievance Settlements which would provide a remedy for the affected pilots
All the recent progress came to a screeching halt late on Friday afternoon.
On Thursday, the MEC Officers, Contract Compliance Committee Chairman, and Envoy ALPA Senior Labor Relations Counsel worked throughout the day to vet and edit the language pass from the company. Late Thursday, we transmitted our revised language, which consisted of minor edits and clean-ups, back to the Company for their review. Then on Friday, I was told by Management's lead negotiator that the Company would be backing out of the Agreement in Principle that was agreed to earlier this week. The excuse given was that AAG had told Envoy management that they had exceeded their authority. At no time during this round of negotiations, and at no time before the Company signed the AIP on Tuesday, did Envoy indicate that their authority was limited or subject to the veto of AAG. This after the fact excuse to welsh on our agreement is in no way consistent with good faith negotiations.
This isn't the first time that our management has demonstrated bad faith in negotiations – a recent example being the failed Reserve Rules change proposals from negotiations ending in January. However, the impact of management reneging on this Agreement in Principle is far more damaging. The credibility of our management has been completely undermined by their actions this week, leaving us unable to trust that they will follow through on future agreements. This behavior is unacceptable.
Whether or not AAG is stepping in to rescind our agreement, or Envoy management ever actually conferred with AAG when they claimed to, is immaterial at this point. They made an agreement and are now repudiating it in bad faith. We cannot continue to pursue good faith negotiations with a management team that is incapable of following through on the agreements they make with the Association.
Envoy management is either unable to identify the mounting challenges facing the viability of the operation, or they are engaged in an effort to turn the pilots against their representatives in a desperate attempt at union busting. It is often assumed that management's actions are nefarious, but this week's events demonstrate that they simply are not committed to negotiate in good faith. Only when AAG recognizes and acknowledges that the pilots of Envoy demand an agreement that provides pay parity relative to the industry measured in real compensation, and not just pay rate tables, will it be possible for us to view it as a partner acting in good faith to offer a career path that meets industry standards. My profound disappointment in our management is shared by your LEC Representatives, the other MEC Officers, and volunteers who work tirelessly to represent the best interests of the pilot group day in and day out.
Originally, when we sent our update last Friday, a communication explaining why we hadn't come to an agreement was in development and slated for distribution. We determined that the signing of an Agreement in Principle, which represented the framework for tangible, durable, ratifiable, and much needed compensation improvements, eliminated the need to distribute that communication. Now that the company has reneged on the signed Agreement in Principle, it seems prudent to share with the pilot group the reasons why we are where we are. Following the transmittal of this update, we are also distributing a communication which was originally slated for distribution earlier this week.
You have the right to be angry.
You have the right to be disappointed.
Your management has failed you yet again.
You deserve proper compensation.
You deserve acceptable work rules.
Your Local Representatives are advocating for you tirelessly.
Your Officers and Committee Volunteers continue to focus on providing the services the pilots require.
I will not rest in my representation of the pilot group, my responsibility and duty to you.
It is never pleasant to be the bearer of bad news. Today marks the latest unwarranted disparagement of Envoy Pilots in a series of adversarial and toxic interactions initiated by Envoy management. We ask you in the meantime to continue to exhibit professionalism.
In Unity,
Steven Pallai
ENY MEC Chairman
06-15-2019, 09:47 PM
#4636
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,117
AA determined what they were willing to pay all 3 WOs long before negotiations ever took place. You’re not in contract negations. This is strictly a business deal and nothing else. Envoy has the 175s and is filling classes just fine. Piedmont (like it or not) is also keeping up with what they need hiring wise. PSA is overstaffed by several hundred pilots. The only reason why AA is handing out raises now is to keep the ball rolling. Saying no to free money is not hurting AA. AA could easily go another 6 months to a year (if not longer) before they really start hurting. All you guys did by not taking the money is cost yourself several hundreds if not thousands of dollars. If you would have kept saying no you’d be waiting a LONG LONG LONG time before you saw any benefit... if any at all. I would guess spring 2020 at the earliest. Which IMO, will still happen because these raises are obviously not enough to make Piedmont attractive to new hires.
Wait till you’ve been a part of the “AAG family” for more than just 2-3 years and you’ll start to see. The letter sent out to the Envoy pilots is proof AA is nowhere near hurting anytime soon.
06-16-2019, 05:24 AM
#4638
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 211
Piedmont Airlines News & Rumors
I am aware NDAs were signed and there was “no strings attached”. Again I said hindsight is 20/20.
However. Had PSA stopped a second and asked themselves why AA was forcing them to sign a NDA and spoke with the other WOs That could have been some great WO leverage.
AA might be able to afford losing 1 of the WO that doesn’t play ball, but all 3 would have really crippled them. But that’s water under the bridge now.
06-16-2019, 12:16 PM
#4639
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: All
Posts: 2
I *was* excited at the possibility to come back to the 121 world as a Piedmont DEC. The QOL and pay issues griped about on here are honestly a complete joke compared to the life we all lived when I left Chautauqua/Republic in 2004, with 6-hour scheduled sits in the terminal at ORD and $19k/year pay. I don't know if I can continue anymore. I'm sick of having the rainbow flag shoved down my throat. I don't care what people do at home, but I don't think it should be brought up and amplified in a business. Going to withdraw my app. Forcing company-wide minority sexual preferences in the spotlight is not something I'm looking for in an employer. Good luck!
06-16-2019, 12:48 PM
#4640
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 310
I *was* excited at the possibility to come back to the 121 world as a Piedmont DEC. The QOL and pay issues griped about on here are honestly a complete joke compared to the life we all lived when I left Chautauqua/Republic in 2004, with 6-hour scheduled sits in the terminal at ORD and $19k/year pay. I don't know if I can continue anymore. I'm sick of having the rainbow flag shoved down my throat. I don't care what people do at home, but I don't think it should be brought up and amplified in a business. Going to withdraw my app. Forcing company-wide minority sexual preferences in the spotlight is not something I'm looking for in an employer. Good luck!
Last edited by Phoenix21; 06-16-2019 at 01:02 PM.
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