Piedmont Airlines News & Rumors
05-04-2019, 04:50 PM
#4292
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,117
I think any of us that have been in the industry for at least a few years know people at just about every airline. Personally, I feel like its not my place to get involved in another airline’s business that I’m not a part of. I try to stay out, but I can see the writing on the wall and I felt like I had to speak my mind. I don’t want anyone to lose their job, or make their quality of life worse if a merger was to happen. I like to keep up on whats going on with Envoy and Piedmont, because I’ve noticed when something happens to one of us... the other’s will follow suit soon after.
Ive been at PSA almost 5 years. That’s nothing, but its long enough to know that AAG will do absolutely anything to keep from spending an extra penny. I’ll admit sometimes I get annoyed when pilots from other airlines come over to the PSA threads, but at the same time... if there’s something that affects my pay and/or QOL I would want you guys to come over and give your point of view. A lot of times there are ideas and opinions we may not have thought of. From personal experience, there are several LOAs that PSA’s MEC has signed into agreement over the last few years that didn’t have any pilot input. IMO, some of them are concessionary with unintended consequences. If we could have had open dialogue before hand like this thread for example... things might have turned out differently. Who knows. Most of them were too small to go to a vote anyway, but I honestly believe the more ideas being thrown out (positive and negative) the better.
Ive been at PSA almost 5 years. That’s nothing, but its long enough to know that AAG will do absolutely anything to keep from spending an extra penny. I’ll admit sometimes I get annoyed when pilots from other airlines come over to the PSA threads, but at the same time... if there’s something that affects my pay and/or QOL I would want you guys to come over and give your point of view. A lot of times there are ideas and opinions we may not have thought of. From personal experience, there are several LOAs that PSA’s MEC has signed into agreement over the last few years that didn’t have any pilot input. IMO, some of them are concessionary with unintended consequences. If we could have had open dialogue before hand like this thread for example... things might have turned out differently. Who knows. Most of them were too small to go to a vote anyway, but I honestly believe the more ideas being thrown out (positive and negative) the better.
05-04-2019, 05:57 PM
#4293
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 212
Don’t bother about trying to convince this APC crowd. The loudest voices here are piedmont’s top 1% disgruntled pilots. Most of them are just angry they can’t get hired anywhere else and have to wait on a trickle of a flow that could disappear at anytime.
For what’s its worth I’d probably be grumpy if I knew I would be stuck at piedmont for years on end also.
For what’s its worth I’d probably be grumpy if I knew I would be stuck at piedmont for years on end also.
You might have some decent advice or ideas, but no one is going to listen to you when you act like a pompous Richard.
I don't disagree with you... I think your 100% correct. But I know that until they need to change it it wont happen. Like I said in my other post. I am willing to take the pepsi challenge to prove that. You may have some pilots but not like what PSA is going to get. If your a pilot shopping for an airline, why in the world would they come here? Even with the increase of pay...
That makes complete sense to me. Put your money where your mouth is. It sounds to me like many thinks once the money is received, recruiting and retention won't improve, and so we have use this opportunity (which seems like it won't happen) to get QOL improvements now. If you truly think that, then of course we don't have the leverage you think you have.
If getting raises will still not help the recruiting and/or retention, then they WILL come back for more. And we THEN will have that leverage we claim to have and they won't believe us on.
#Takethemoney
I am going to start writing this on the inside of all the yoke caps and W&B pads we don't use anymore. I recommend you all start writing it if you want the money and call your union rep.
Though even if we match PSA's hourly rates, we will still be well behind. I like to fly, I do it for free, but they company needs to pay me for my time away from home, which they suck at compared to PSA. If we have a 300 TAFB/away from home, at $60/h x 75 hours, that is $4500/month. 4500/300=$15/h they are paying us. Some are 300-350 hours TAFB So a year 2 CA is making 12-15 per hour.
Can someone from PSA chime in and help me out, what is your avg TAFB lines? Look at PSA 80/h x 75 =$6000/month. From what I hear with 14-18 days off. I have to guess it is closer to 250hours TAFB? 6000/250= $25/h. But doesn't the avg PSA line holder get more than 75 hours? Don't they also get overtime over 80 hours? So 6k/m is probably closer to 7k/m, which is $28/h
So lets bump up PDT to match at 80/h. 6000/300-350=$17-$20/h. Even IF PDT matches PSA rates, they are still making $5/h more than us purely due to more efficient schedules. Compared PSA's $25-$28/h to our $12-$15/h NOW and compared to 17-20/h IF we got matching raises. There is still not reason at all to come to PDT over PSA, or just about any airline.
What does the avg PDT non-flight-crew employees work 175h a month? I agree QOL will never change if the management's mindset never changes, and hopefully that will help them see. I have heard that management has complained because the 'whiny pilots get 4 days on and 2 days off, but they have to work 5 days on and only get 2 days off". I don't think they realize they get to sleep in their home/own bed every night, and see their spouse and/or kids every day. We are literally gone from home twice as much as they are. 175 x 2 =350. You pay them 6000/m, that would come out to $34/h.
Let's take the money, watch recruiting AND retention stay the same or get worse, and then with THAT leverage, we can get some better things. #Takethemoney
Last edited by Flyinguy; 05-04-2019 at 06:17 PM.
05-05-2019, 04:17 AM
#4294
On Reserve
Joined APC: May 2019
Position: CA E145
Posts: 15
Don't refer to yourself as "we" with regards to PDT or "us". You used PDT as a stepping stone (which no one faults you for that). You always thought you were better than PDT scum before you came, and still think you are better than all of us with "skeletons in the closet".
You might have some decent advice or ideas, but no one is going to listen to you when you act like a pompous Richard.
I am all for the Pepsi challenge. You made some great points.
That makes complete sense to me. Put your money where your mouth is. It sounds to me like many thinks once the money is received, recruiting and retention won't improve, and so we have use this opportunity (which seems like it won't happen) to get QOL improvements now. If you truly think that, then of course we don't have the leverage you think you have.
If getting raises will still not help the recruiting and/or retention, then they WILL come back for more. And we THEN will have that leverage we claim to have and they won't believe us on.
#Takethemoney
I am going to start writing this on the inside of all the yoke caps and W&B pads we don't use anymore. I recommend you all start writing it if you want the money and call your union rep.
Though even if we match PSA's hourly rates, we will still be well behind. I like to fly, I do it for free, but they company needs to pay me for my time away from home, which they suck at compared to PSA. If we have a 300 TAFB/away from home, at $60/h x 75 hours, that is $4500/month. 4500/300=$15/h they are paying us. Some are 300-350 hours TAFB So a year 2 CA is making 12-15 per hour.
Can someone from PSA chime in and help me out, what is your avg TAFB lines? Look at PSA 80/h x 75 =$6000/month. From what I hear with 14-18 days off. I have to guess it is closer to 250hours TAFB? 6000/250= $25/h. But doesn't the avg PSA line holder get more than 75 hours? Don't they also get overtime over 80 hours? So 6k/m is probably closer to 7k/m, which is $28/h
So lets bump up PDT to match at 80/h. 6000/300-350=$17-$20/h. Even IF PDT matches PSA rates, they are still making $5/h more than us purely due to more efficient schedules. Compared PSA's $25-$28/h to our $12-$15/h NOW and compared to 17-20/h IF we got matching raises. There is still not reason at all to come to PDT over PSA, or just about any airline.
What does the avg PDT non-flight-crew employees work 175h a month? I agree QOL will never change if the management's mindset never changes, and hopefully that will help them see. I have heard that management has complained because the 'whiny pilots get 4 days on and 2 days off, but they have to work 5 days on and only get 2 days off". I don't think they realize they get to sleep in their home/own bed every night, and see their spouse and/or kids every day. We are literally gone from home twice as much as they are. 175 x 2 =350. You pay them 6000/m, that would come out to $34/h.
Let's take the money, watch recruiting AND retention stay the same or get worse, and then with THAT leverage, we can get some better things. #Takethemoney
You might have some decent advice or ideas, but no one is going to listen to you when you act like a pompous Richard.
I am all for the Pepsi challenge. You made some great points.
That makes complete sense to me. Put your money where your mouth is. It sounds to me like many thinks once the money is received, recruiting and retention won't improve, and so we have use this opportunity (which seems like it won't happen) to get QOL improvements now. If you truly think that, then of course we don't have the leverage you think you have.
If getting raises will still not help the recruiting and/or retention, then they WILL come back for more. And we THEN will have that leverage we claim to have and they won't believe us on.
#Takethemoney
I am going to start writing this on the inside of all the yoke caps and W&B pads we don't use anymore. I recommend you all start writing it if you want the money and call your union rep.
Though even if we match PSA's hourly rates, we will still be well behind. I like to fly, I do it for free, but they company needs to pay me for my time away from home, which they suck at compared to PSA. If we have a 300 TAFB/away from home, at $60/h x 75 hours, that is $4500/month. 4500/300=$15/h they are paying us. Some are 300-350 hours TAFB So a year 2 CA is making 12-15 per hour.
Can someone from PSA chime in and help me out, what is your avg TAFB lines? Look at PSA 80/h x 75 =$6000/month. From what I hear with 14-18 days off. I have to guess it is closer to 250hours TAFB? 6000/250= $25/h. But doesn't the avg PSA line holder get more than 75 hours? Don't they also get overtime over 80 hours? So 6k/m is probably closer to 7k/m, which is $28/h
So lets bump up PDT to match at 80/h. 6000/300-350=$17-$20/h. Even IF PDT matches PSA rates, they are still making $5/h more than us purely due to more efficient schedules. Compared PSA's $25-$28/h to our $12-$15/h NOW and compared to 17-20/h IF we got matching raises. There is still not reason at all to come to PDT over PSA, or just about any airline.
What does the avg PDT non-flight-crew employees work 175h a month? I agree QOL will never change if the management's mindset never changes, and hopefully that will help them see. I have heard that management has complained because the 'whiny pilots get 4 days on and 2 days off, but they have to work 5 days on and only get 2 days off". I don't think they realize they get to sleep in their home/own bed every night, and see their spouse and/or kids every day. We are literally gone from home twice as much as they are. 175 x 2 =350. You pay them 6000/m, that would come out to $34/h.
Let's take the money, watch recruiting AND retention stay the same or get worse, and then with THAT leverage, we can get some better things. #Takethemoney
05-05-2019, 08:24 AM
#4296
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 148
So MK is telling pilots in CUT that ALPA should be taking the money, LH the CEO, yes the CEO is in the PHL Crew Room saying ALPA should take the money, the seniority list hasn't been updated in months, rumors are flying around like crazy about no one showing up for interviews and you want to #takethemoney?
You want to #takethemoney because YOU BELIEVE that it won't help recruiting and retention. In case you haven't notice that Piedmont is the expert at putting band aids on staffing and just because YOU BELIEVE it won't improve staffing doesn't mean it won't. Here is the thing, increasing pay maybe won't have the masses flooding in for interviews, but if the already lackluster recruiting can show relatively competitive pay rates to just get a few more pilots in every month that may be just enough of a band aid. They have cadets who already have no idea what they're getting into signing 2 years out scared to death to back out of their commitments like it's some black stain or that they will have to pay some absurd amount of money back (not true). RTP's which has been a failing program from the start and the company wanted to back away from. Those two groups are currently the only reason the past few months of classes haven't been 1-3 people each. Just look and talk to the NH classes and you will see that is the case.
The goal here is to get JUST ENOUGH people to keep the planes in the air. Why did AA come to us to give us money? Because we hit our triple play goal in January? NOPE. It's because they know it will be just barely, BARELY, good enough to get enough pilots in the door. You realize right now with what PSA did that Piedmont currently has the worst QOL, worst PAY, equal to worse flow/Upgrade times. Reference the first paragraph, chief pilots and CEOs wouldn't be trying to talk to the non MEC pilots directly about how we should take the pay unless they were desperate.
Yeah let's #takethepay because I think it won't help recruiting.. Why don't you reference 2016's pay raise, and yeah I know I know they was more potential here but pretty much anywhere that has rolled out a significant pay raise will get JUST ENOUGH, uninformed pilots to cover staffing. They WILL NOT come back to the table until they need too and honestly if they do it probably wouldn't be for a year.
#donttakethemoneybecausewehavesomuchleverageandify oudoyougivesomeback
Man I don't know if some of you guys posting have money problems or just don't have second level thinking or are just trolling
You want to #takethemoney because YOU BELIEVE that it won't help recruiting and retention. In case you haven't notice that Piedmont is the expert at putting band aids on staffing and just because YOU BELIEVE it won't improve staffing doesn't mean it won't. Here is the thing, increasing pay maybe won't have the masses flooding in for interviews, but if the already lackluster recruiting can show relatively competitive pay rates to just get a few more pilots in every month that may be just enough of a band aid. They have cadets who already have no idea what they're getting into signing 2 years out scared to death to back out of their commitments like it's some black stain or that they will have to pay some absurd amount of money back (not true). RTP's which has been a failing program from the start and the company wanted to back away from. Those two groups are currently the only reason the past few months of classes haven't been 1-3 people each. Just look and talk to the NH classes and you will see that is the case.
The goal here is to get JUST ENOUGH people to keep the planes in the air. Why did AA come to us to give us money? Because we hit our triple play goal in January? NOPE. It's because they know it will be just barely, BARELY, good enough to get enough pilots in the door. You realize right now with what PSA did that Piedmont currently has the worst QOL, worst PAY, equal to worse flow/Upgrade times. Reference the first paragraph, chief pilots and CEOs wouldn't be trying to talk to the non MEC pilots directly about how we should take the pay unless they were desperate.
Yeah let's #takethepay because I think it won't help recruiting.. Why don't you reference 2016's pay raise, and yeah I know I know they was more potential here but pretty much anywhere that has rolled out a significant pay raise will get JUST ENOUGH, uninformed pilots to cover staffing. They WILL NOT come back to the table until they need too and honestly if they do it probably wouldn't be for a year.
#donttakethemoneybecausewehavesomuchleverageandify oudoyougivesomeback
Man I don't know if some of you guys posting have money problems or just don't have second level thinking or are just trolling
05-05-2019, 08:30 AM
#4297
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 96
So MK is telling pilots in CUT that ALPA should be taking the money, LH the CEO, yes the CEO is in the PHL Crew Room saying ALPA should take the money, the seniority list hasn't been updated in months, rumors are flying around like crazy about no one showing up for interviews and you want to #takethemoney?
You want to #takethemoney because YOU BELIEVE that it won't help recruiting and retention. In case you haven't notice that Piedmont is the expert at putting band aids on staffing and just because YOU BELIEVE it won't improve staffing doesn't mean it won't. Here is the thing, increasing pay maybe won't have the masses flooding in for interviews, but if the already lackluster recruiting can show relatively competitive pay rates to just get a few more pilots in every month that may be just enough of a band aid. They have cadets who already have no idea what they're getting into signing 2 years out scared to death to back out of their commitments like it's some black stain or that they will have to pay some absurd amount of money back (not true). RTP's which has been a failing program from the start and the company wanted to back away from. Those two groups are currently the only reason the past few months of classes haven't been 1-3 people each. Just look and talk to the NH classes and you will see that is the case.
The goal here is to get JUST ENOUGH people to keep the planes in the air. Why did AA come to us to give us money? Because we hit our triple play goal in January? NOPE. It's because they know it will be just barely, BARELY, good enough to get enough pilots in the door. You realize right now with what PSA did that Piedmont currently has the worst QOL, worst PAY, equal to worse flow/Upgrade times. Reference the first paragraph, chief pilots and CEOs wouldn't be trying to talk to the non MEC pilots directly about how we should take the pay unless they were desperate.
Yeah let's #takethepay because I think it won't help recruiting.. Why don't you reference 2016's pay raise, and yeah I know I know they was more potential here but pretty much anywhere that has rolled out a significant pay raise will get JUST ENOUGH, uninformed pilots to cover staffing. They WILL NOT come back to the table until they need too and honestly if they do it probably wouldn't be for a year.
#donttakethemoneybecausewehavesomuchleverageandify oudoyougivesomeback
Man I don't know if some of you guys posting have money problems or just don't have second level thinking or are just trolling
You want to #takethemoney because YOU BELIEVE that it won't help recruiting and retention. In case you haven't notice that Piedmont is the expert at putting band aids on staffing and just because YOU BELIEVE it won't improve staffing doesn't mean it won't. Here is the thing, increasing pay maybe won't have the masses flooding in for interviews, but if the already lackluster recruiting can show relatively competitive pay rates to just get a few more pilots in every month that may be just enough of a band aid. They have cadets who already have no idea what they're getting into signing 2 years out scared to death to back out of their commitments like it's some black stain or that they will have to pay some absurd amount of money back (not true). RTP's which has been a failing program from the start and the company wanted to back away from. Those two groups are currently the only reason the past few months of classes haven't been 1-3 people each. Just look and talk to the NH classes and you will see that is the case.
The goal here is to get JUST ENOUGH people to keep the planes in the air. Why did AA come to us to give us money? Because we hit our triple play goal in January? NOPE. It's because they know it will be just barely, BARELY, good enough to get enough pilots in the door. You realize right now with what PSA did that Piedmont currently has the worst QOL, worst PAY, equal to worse flow/Upgrade times. Reference the first paragraph, chief pilots and CEOs wouldn't be trying to talk to the non MEC pilots directly about how we should take the pay unless they were desperate.
Yeah let's #takethepay because I think it won't help recruiting.. Why don't you reference 2016's pay raise, and yeah I know I know they was more potential here but pretty much anywhere that has rolled out a significant pay raise will get JUST ENOUGH, uninformed pilots to cover staffing. They WILL NOT come back to the table until they need too and honestly if they do it probably wouldn't be for a year.
#donttakethemoneybecausewehavesomuchleverageandify oudoyougivesomeback
Man I don't know if some of you guys posting have money problems or just don't have second level thinking or are just trolling
Maybe some of the posters are management in disguise?
05-05-2019, 08:55 AM
#4298
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 85
So MK is telling pilots in CUT that ALPA should be taking the money, LH the CEO, yes the CEO is in the PHL Crew Room saying ALPA should take the money, the seniority list hasn't been updated in months, rumors are flying around like crazy about no one showing up for interviews and you want to #takethemoney?
You want to #takethemoney because YOU BELIEVE that it won't help recruiting and retention. In case you haven't notice that Piedmont is the expert at putting band aids on staffing and just because YOU BELIEVE it won't improve staffing doesn't mean it won't. Here is the thing, increasing pay maybe won't have the masses flooding in for interviews, but if the already lackluster recruiting can show relatively competitive pay rates to just get a few more pilots in every month that may be just enough of a band aid. They have cadets who already have no idea what they're getting into signing 2 years out scared to death to back out of their commitments like it's some black stain or that they will have to pay some absurd amount of money back (not true). RTP's which has been a failing program from the start and the company wanted to back away from. Those two groups are currently the only reason the past few months of classes haven't been 1-3 people each. Just look and talk to the NH classes and you will see that is the case.
The goal here is to get JUST ENOUGH people to keep the planes in the air. Why did AA come to us to give us money? Because we hit our triple play goal in January? NOPE. It's because they know it will be just barely, BARELY, good enough to get enough pilots in the door. You realize right now with what PSA did that Piedmont currently has the worst QOL, worst PAY, equal to worse flow/Upgrade times. Reference the first paragraph, chief pilots and CEOs wouldn't be trying to talk to the non MEC pilots directly about how we should take the pay unless they were desperate.
Yeah let's #takethepay because I think it won't help recruiting.. Why don't you reference 2016's pay raise, and yeah I know I know they was more potential here but pretty much anywhere that has rolled out a significant pay raise will get JUST ENOUGH, uninformed pilots to cover staffing. They WILL NOT come back to the table until they need too and honestly if they do it probably wouldn't be for a year.
#donttakethemoneybecausewehavesomuchleverageandify oudoyougivesomeback
Man I don't know if some of you guys posting have money problems or just don't have second level thinking or are just trolling
You want to #takethemoney because YOU BELIEVE that it won't help recruiting and retention. In case you haven't notice that Piedmont is the expert at putting band aids on staffing and just because YOU BELIEVE it won't improve staffing doesn't mean it won't. Here is the thing, increasing pay maybe won't have the masses flooding in for interviews, but if the already lackluster recruiting can show relatively competitive pay rates to just get a few more pilots in every month that may be just enough of a band aid. They have cadets who already have no idea what they're getting into signing 2 years out scared to death to back out of their commitments like it's some black stain or that they will have to pay some absurd amount of money back (not true). RTP's which has been a failing program from the start and the company wanted to back away from. Those two groups are currently the only reason the past few months of classes haven't been 1-3 people each. Just look and talk to the NH classes and you will see that is the case.
The goal here is to get JUST ENOUGH people to keep the planes in the air. Why did AA come to us to give us money? Because we hit our triple play goal in January? NOPE. It's because they know it will be just barely, BARELY, good enough to get enough pilots in the door. You realize right now with what PSA did that Piedmont currently has the worst QOL, worst PAY, equal to worse flow/Upgrade times. Reference the first paragraph, chief pilots and CEOs wouldn't be trying to talk to the non MEC pilots directly about how we should take the pay unless they were desperate.
Yeah let's #takethepay because I think it won't help recruiting.. Why don't you reference 2016's pay raise, and yeah I know I know they was more potential here but pretty much anywhere that has rolled out a significant pay raise will get JUST ENOUGH, uninformed pilots to cover staffing. They WILL NOT come back to the table until they need too and honestly if they do it probably wouldn't be for a year.
#donttakethemoneybecausewehavesomuchleverageandify oudoyougivesomeback
Man I don't know if some of you guys posting have money problems or just don't have second level thinking or are just trolling
05-05-2019, 09:06 AM
#4299
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: 175 CA
Posts: 1,285
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