chrisreedrules

I guess the argument as I see it is that they are offering the 50-seat rates that PSA has (or so I’ve heard). And honestly I’m not so sure that those rates are going to be enough to prop up recruiting in and of themselves. So the argument is that you should take them because in the interim it will be a pay raise and management will be back because they won’t work to help recruit..

Newstick189

You may be able to get your recruitment needs with cash alone, but it doesn’t address the attrition issue the QOL causes.

Taking the cash now will draw things out, I can assure you of that.

whydididoit

That's correct. We tried. It's obvious these guys (management) aren't going to play ball. The sooner we all realize that the faster we can move on. Let them pay us more. We will see them in 6 months when the %^&& really hits the fan and are in panic mode. We all know pay alone wont recruit more pilots. Let them figure that out. It's mutually beneficial to both of us that we recruit more pilots. We should at least work with them on that. Its their problem to recruit pilots to fly their planes, not ours. The only way QOL will get better for us is when its in their interest. Not ours.

whydididoit

I don't disagree with you... I think your 100% correct. But I know that until they need to change it it wont happen. Like I said in my other post. I am willing to take the pepsi challenge to prove that. You may have some pilots but not like what PSA is going to get. If your a pilot shopping for an airline, why in the world would they come here? Even with the increase of pay...

Newstick189

IMO, you take the cash now you end up waiting x10 as long before the company approaches us about fixing QOL. If you are patient now, you get it all in one package when the operation is stressed to the max over this summer. The recruitment and retention issue posed by the PSA pay raise gave us the leverage to get it done.

This management team will do whatever they can to scrape by doing the bare minimum for this group. They’ve proven themselves capable of flipping rocks and finding candidates from every possible location when the pay was equal. You bring us up to PSA standards all that does it line our pockets with more money we can’t spend since we only get 11 days off a month.

Lastly, I’m tired of this company finding questionable candidates because of our reputation, pay, and work rules. We as a company and pilot group need to be a competitive operation that gets the best people we can get. It’s a matter of safety long term. We’re not far off from being a Commutair.

IVVIB

So, you'd negotiate for QOL improvements, but wait an undetermined amount of time to do so? In the mean time give up the leverage the pilot group had previously. ???

whydididoit

What leverage would you have if they increased the pay and they couldn't recruit???

Think about it. If you were looking for an Airline based in CLT or PHL where would you choose? I know where I would go and the second letter isn't i.

chrisreedrules

To be honest, I don’t think that’s how any of this works... Piedmont is a relatively small regional airline that simply is not providing a ton of lift for AAG. In the past AAG has shown a propensity to take their ball and go home when things don’t go their way.

All that being said, yes I know and understand that times are different than they were 4-5 years ago. The point is that if they’re offering you money for nothing why wouldn’t you take it? You don’t really have the leverage you seem to think you do being that you don’t really operate a significant portion of the daily departures for AAG.

What will end up happening is that your management will have ZERO interest in discussing anything other than giving you money (which from the sounds of their relatively hostile posturing they may not think you deserve to begin with) that if you don’t take and the operation suffers significantly then they will go to plan B. I don’t know what that plan could be but I’m assuming AAG has a plan B. I’m the meantime you’ll just be doing the same job for what you’re making now with no significant QOL improvements or pay parity.

I say take the money. Everyone knows it isn’t going to be enough to keep the wheels from falling off the bus. They’re going to have to keep coming back with more. They’ll be back for QOL improvements even if they aren’t ready to give that up right now. If you don’t take the money now you’ll just be that much poorer by the time they come back with pay and QOL improvements. I’ve seen the level of absolute dumpster fire AAG will let something get to before intervening. Piedmont isn’t even close yet. It’s not like if you turn the money down they’ll go into panic mode. They’ll just let it get worse while other regionals cover your flying.

IVVIB

Think we’re saying the same thing, just priority of timing is different. Also, the Union is really asking AAG for much, but instead is asking SBY to get with the rest of the regional industry so the pilots can have a similar work/life balance as peers.

Thedude86

I agree with chrisreed. I don’t think any of us, wholly owned or not, have the leverage we think we do. PSA is overstaffed by 400-500 pilots. We have 1900 pilots compared to Mesa who only has 1200 pilots. Yet, they operate more airplanes. Republic is slightly overstaffed and their classes are full till the end of the year. AAG got rid of Air Wisconsin completely in 3-4 months. AAG could easily transfer flying. Plus, AAG isn’t Delta. AAG has shown in my 5 years at PSA that they’ll do absolutely anything just to save a nickel. Even if it disrupts operations. Which IMO, AAG is in a better position with pilot staffing overall than they were in 2013. IMO, PSA is staffed well enough to take all of the remaining CRJ700s from Envoy within just a few short months And then Envoy could take Piedmont’s 145s back at almost the same pace without either one of us having to change our hiring practices. Sorry if that makes me sound like a donkey, but sometimes you gotta know when to quit while you’re ahead. It’s free money. As others have pointed out.. you’re not in contract negotiations. You don’t have the leverage you think you do.

AAG is a business. They already have a budget set up for what they want to pay you and not a penny more. They already have a plan B, C, and D if you guys don’t play ball. The problem is Envoy is right behind you guys. AAG knows that Envoy’s union is watching and if you guys get your way, then Envoy will try the exact same thing. Whatever extra AAG gives Piedmont will cost more than quadruple to give Envoy the exact same thing. If the average Envoy pilot credits 80 hours a month... just a $5/hour raise would be $12 million extra a year. $60 million over 5 years. Not including the precedence it would set for other labor groups or other regional management when they go to renew their contracts. One more labor group to twist AAG’s arm like that and that’s EASILY another $100 million over 5 years. Do you really think AAG is gonna let that happen? Do you guys have that kind of leverage? Like I said, AAG is a business. A cheap one at that. Their plan B,C, and D would be a lot cheaper options than caving to the unions. They could easily transfer flying or downsize. Or plan D, imo is to just increase the bonuses for new hires and DECs. PSA just increased the cadet bonuses by $7,500. New hires ultimately don’t care about QOL rules until they have experience to know what else is out there.

AAG has shown they don’t give a flying f about employee morale, or even a smooth operation. AAG only cares as long as it gets done cheaply and it gets done eventually.

I’m all for sticking it to the man. If you read my post history you’ll see I’ve been upset with PSA and AAG myself, but I think you guys need to start thinking like a businessman and not with pilot emotions. At best, you guys will get what you were gonna get anyway with no backpay. At worst, you could screw yourselves and possibly Envoy at the same time.