Turbine jump pilot time or piston 135 VFR?
12-15-2012, 07:15 PM
#11
Citation X driver
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: citation x driver
Posts: 56
I as well flew jumpers as well and am glad I did it. started in a 182, moved up to a 206, and although I fly a jet these days, would love to drop meat out of a caravan or an otter. Both seem like good gigs, and i've never been questioned at an interview about lack of experience flying skydivers. It's a great way to build time. I'd go with whichever is a more solid operation and enjoy.
12-18-2012, 06:48 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 183
As opposed to what other low time flying jobs? Flying banners? Flying 135 VFR passengers around in Extreme Clear? Going around the pattern as a CFI? (ooo i bet i get a lot of comments for that last one) Flying across the country taking pics in Day VFR? Id say the only low time pilot job that requires more skill set than the rest would be a CFII, which should speak for itself.
12-18-2012, 07:15 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: Commercial
Posts: 37
Well I consider Alaska to be in a different league and just didnt consider it when i wrote that. I was thinking of the scenic/tour people in the grand canyon and the like. But your right in that not all 135 vfr is like that. Plus technically speaking that "good vfr" would need to be at least 3sm and 1,000 agl for most areas to be legal - of which would be a crap day for tour customers anyway
12-19-2012, 03:37 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Captian, G450, G550 (Ret.)
Posts: 165
For you Jump Pilots
12-19-2012, 05:10 AM
#17
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: Contract Pilot
Posts: 48
Crazy!! My 182 I drop in on my down wind from 5000... But nothing like that on the base to final!
12-19-2012, 05:35 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Captian, G450, G550 (Ret.)
Posts: 165
12-26-2012, 03:12 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 204
For a new commercial pilot dropping divers is a great way to build time and make the transition from student to real world commercial pilot. The whole dynamic of a drop zone really throws you into the commercial pilot mind set which is quite a bit different than flying along building time on your own...
Simple things like efficiency and quickness on the ground (pre flight, fueling, wind checks, NOTAMS etc.)paying attention to weight and CG prior to every take off, making go/no go decisions under pressure to "get the job done," constantly communicating with ATC, and most importantly actually having a boss watching you fly their airplane builds a good base of experience for commercial operations that will benefit a new pilot as they progress in their career. For a low time new comm pilot, I would also say that you will learn more about how to fly an airplane dropping divers than you will teaching students. I have trained a number of new jump pilots who were already CFI's, and I found that many of them were still more fearful than confident behind the controls... flying jumpers will build your confidence, and this is essential for becoming an effective flight instructor, as well as a good pilot.
I got my first job dropping divers at 300 hrs TT and am now at 900. Once you get close to 1000 TT I would say that dropping divers is useless time, unless that is you can upgrade to a DZ with a turbine or twin which is my plan now. I have also been working on my CFI on the side and am about to take my checkride next week (the CFII and MEI will be next). I decided to take the Caravan jump pilot job while intstructing on the side at a nearby flight school. After this summer I will hopefully be at 135 IFR mins and ready for a freight job or a regional. My ultimate goal is to get to the airlines.
I have talked to a lot of other jump pilots and they all seem to have two things in common: they never got their instructor ratings, and they are having tough times moving up into better jobs. I am sure the two are related. I was planning on getting my CFI right after my commercial, however after getting my first job flying jumpers my CFI was thrown way on the back burner. I started to get lazy and think of ways I could avoid it, but I have found that without that CFI it is very difficult to move on toward the airlines... if Alaska bush type flying is your long term goal however, than jump pilot time seems to be as valuable as any.
I have also read a lot of negative comments about jump pilot pay that I'd like to discuss... it is true that any jump pilot job in a piston (182, 206, 210) will pay roughly as much or less than a pizza delivery driver, standard is $10-$15 per load and based on business volume you can expect to make anywhere from $1000 - $1600 per month. Some piston DZ's will have weekly pay minimums and those are the ones to look for. Now when you get around 900 TT you can start poking your head around at the turbine only drop zones and those pilots actually do make a decent wage... One drop zone owner I just spoke with pays his pilots a minimum of $3000 a month with a 4 on 3 off schedule. After contacting a few different turbine DZ's it looks like $2500-$3500 a month is common. That's more than a new regional FO, but the big difference is one is a dead end while the other is a path toward an actual career.
AviatorG, to get into a turbine DZ you have to have at least 900TT (most will require 1000 for insurance), and just show them that you're eager and motivated. Go to dropzone.com and look up where the turbine drop zones are located, get their contact info and start bugging them. Try to contact either the chief pilot if there is one, or the owner. If you can show up and introduce yourself in person that is huge!
Simple things like efficiency and quickness on the ground (pre flight, fueling, wind checks, NOTAMS etc.)paying attention to weight and CG prior to every take off, making go/no go decisions under pressure to "get the job done," constantly communicating with ATC, and most importantly actually having a boss watching you fly their airplane builds a good base of experience for commercial operations that will benefit a new pilot as they progress in their career. For a low time new comm pilot, I would also say that you will learn more about how to fly an airplane dropping divers than you will teaching students. I have trained a number of new jump pilots who were already CFI's, and I found that many of them were still more fearful than confident behind the controls... flying jumpers will build your confidence, and this is essential for becoming an effective flight instructor, as well as a good pilot.
I got my first job dropping divers at 300 hrs TT and am now at 900. Once you get close to 1000 TT I would say that dropping divers is useless time, unless that is you can upgrade to a DZ with a turbine or twin which is my plan now. I have also been working on my CFI on the side and am about to take my checkride next week (the CFII and MEI will be next). I decided to take the Caravan jump pilot job while intstructing on the side at a nearby flight school. After this summer I will hopefully be at 135 IFR mins and ready for a freight job or a regional. My ultimate goal is to get to the airlines.
I have talked to a lot of other jump pilots and they all seem to have two things in common: they never got their instructor ratings, and they are having tough times moving up into better jobs. I am sure the two are related. I was planning on getting my CFI right after my commercial, however after getting my first job flying jumpers my CFI was thrown way on the back burner. I started to get lazy and think of ways I could avoid it, but I have found that without that CFI it is very difficult to move on toward the airlines... if Alaska bush type flying is your long term goal however, than jump pilot time seems to be as valuable as any.
I have also read a lot of negative comments about jump pilot pay that I'd like to discuss... it is true that any jump pilot job in a piston (182, 206, 210) will pay roughly as much or less than a pizza delivery driver, standard is $10-$15 per load and based on business volume you can expect to make anywhere from $1000 - $1600 per month. Some piston DZ's will have weekly pay minimums and those are the ones to look for. Now when you get around 900 TT you can start poking your head around at the turbine only drop zones and those pilots actually do make a decent wage... One drop zone owner I just spoke with pays his pilots a minimum of $3000 a month with a 4 on 3 off schedule. After contacting a few different turbine DZ's it looks like $2500-$3500 a month is common. That's more than a new regional FO, but the big difference is one is a dead end while the other is a path toward an actual career.
AviatorG, to get into a turbine DZ you have to have at least 900TT (most will require 1000 for insurance), and just show them that you're eager and motivated. Go to dropzone.com and look up where the turbine drop zones are located, get their contact info and start bugging them. Try to contact either the chief pilot if there is one, or the owner. If you can show up and introduce yourself in person that is huge!
Last edited by BeardedFlyer; 12-26-2012 at 03:35 PM.
12-26-2012, 07:31 PM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Position: Commercial
Posts: 37
Beardedflyer - great post and good luck on your checkride!
For anyone that is currently a jump pilot or interested there is a "fairly" new facebook group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/371926512831952/ - to join - great connections with other jump pilots and dropzones. Plus some of the people have 5000+ hours of diver driver flying experience to answer any questions to go along with dropzone.com.
To comment on pay again with my experience...When hired at 370TT I was getting $10 a load. With a load taking bout .5 hobbs in normal 182 thats 20 bucks an hour - which seems to be on par with the majority of CFI jobs. I was flying 90-100 hours a month at the DZ so that was 1800-2000 a month. Most reputable piston DZ's that actually pay their pilots will include free housing as well. I received on top of that free Internet, Utilities, Cable TV. So i would say that with pay would equal to 2300-2500 a month or so. Not too bad for a wet commercial. Next job hired at 700TT flying 206 was 10 per load + base salary included with take home pay bout 3,000 a month when flying 90-100 hours a month. So there are decent jump pilot paying jobs out there that are on par with the rest of the industry low time jobs. Ive also heard some jump pilots that have been flying 5+ years in the industry are sought after and have been offered jobs in the 50,000-90,000 dollar range working in the US and overseas. So if the DZ hippie lifestyle is for you...it could be called a career.
Also to agree with Beardedflyer - once you reach that 1000HR mark, the piston jump pilot time seems to be thought of as useless, although lots of fun, unless all you need is TT or want to try to advance to a turbine DZ.
For anyone that is currently a jump pilot or interested there is a "fairly" new facebook group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/371926512831952/ - to join - great connections with other jump pilots and dropzones. Plus some of the people have 5000+ hours of diver driver flying experience to answer any questions to go along with dropzone.com.
To comment on pay again with my experience...When hired at 370TT I was getting $10 a load. With a load taking bout .5 hobbs in normal 182 thats 20 bucks an hour - which seems to be on par with the majority of CFI jobs. I was flying 90-100 hours a month at the DZ so that was 1800-2000 a month. Most reputable piston DZ's that actually pay their pilots will include free housing as well. I received on top of that free Internet, Utilities, Cable TV. So i would say that with pay would equal to 2300-2500 a month or so. Not too bad for a wet commercial. Next job hired at 700TT flying 206 was 10 per load + base salary included with take home pay bout 3,000 a month when flying 90-100 hours a month. So there are decent jump pilot paying jobs out there that are on par with the rest of the industry low time jobs. Ive also heard some jump pilots that have been flying 5+ years in the industry are sought after and have been offered jobs in the 50,000-90,000 dollar range working in the US and overseas. So if the DZ hippie lifestyle is for you...it could be called a career.
Also to agree with Beardedflyer - once you reach that 1000HR mark, the piston jump pilot time seems to be thought of as useless, although lots of fun, unless all you need is TT or want to try to advance to a turbine DZ.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
