Safety pilot
06-27-2012, 07:15 PM
#1
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Position: 135 charter
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Safety pilot
Got a question for everyone. Sorry for being vague...
I fly in a 2 man crew part 91 gig in an aircraft that doesn't require a second pilot. We are doing aerial survey.
PF has his/her head buried in the camera rig equipment the entire time we are mapping and is not looking outside at all. PNF is responsible for traffic avoidance and comms. Pilots switch roles as desired.
I feel very justified in logging the time spent as PNF as safety pilot time given my responsibilities.
What is everyone's opinion on this situation as far as logging the time as safety pilot? And yes I have read the regs in regards to this.
I fly in a 2 man crew part 91 gig in an aircraft that doesn't require a second pilot. We are doing aerial survey.
PF has his/her head buried in the camera rig equipment the entire time we are mapping and is not looking outside at all. PNF is responsible for traffic avoidance and comms. Pilots switch roles as desired.
I feel very justified in logging the time spent as PNF as safety pilot time given my responsibilities.
What is everyone's opinion on this situation as far as logging the time as safety pilot? And yes I have read the regs in regards to this.
06-27-2012, 07:48 PM
#2
ALL Days Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 384
Got a question for everyone. Sorry for being vague...
I fly in a 2 man crew part 91 gig in an aircraft that doesn't require a second pilot. We are doing aerial survey.
PF has his/her head buried in the camera rig equipment the entire time we are mapping and is not looking outside at all. PNF is responsible for traffic avoidance and comms. Pilots switch roles as desired.
I feel very justified in logging the time spent as PNF as safety pilot time given my responsibilities.
What is everyone's opinion on this situation as far as logging the time as safety pilot? And yes I have read the regs in regards to this.
I fly in a 2 man crew part 91 gig in an aircraft that doesn't require a second pilot. We are doing aerial survey.
PF has his/her head buried in the camera rig equipment the entire time we are mapping and is not looking outside at all. PNF is responsible for traffic avoidance and comms. Pilots switch roles as desired.
I feel very justified in logging the time spent as PNF as safety pilot time given my responsibilities.
What is everyone's opinion on this situation as far as logging the time as safety pilot? And yes I have read the regs in regards to this.
06-28-2012, 06:48 AM
#3
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
Posts: 1,602
You can "justify" it anyway you want but it will be interpreted in light of the regs and ops you were operating under at the time.
06-28-2012, 06:52 AM
#4
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
Posts: 1,602
[QUOTE=chaser918;1220128]
I fly in a 2 man crew part 91 gig in an aircraft that doesn't require a second pilot. Pilots switch roles as desired.
QUOTE]
This reminds me of an incident in which two MEIs rented a Seneca with the intention of building multi-engine time. Each pilot logged the time as PIC with the justification that each one was providing the other with dual. Conveniently "Dual received" was not annotated in either logbook (nor was a CFI signature) when the FAA showed up to investigate (someone dropped a dime figuring something fishy was going on). Violation.
I fly in a 2 man crew part 91 gig in an aircraft that doesn't require a second pilot. Pilots switch roles as desired.
QUOTE]
This reminds me of an incident in which two MEIs rented a Seneca with the intention of building multi-engine time. Each pilot logged the time as PIC with the justification that each one was providing the other with dual. Conveniently "Dual received" was not annotated in either logbook (nor was a CFI signature) when the FAA showed up to investigate (someone dropped a dime figuring something fishy was going on). Violation.
06-28-2012, 04:24 PM
#5
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Well you really can't log it as safety pilot time because the way the FARs are written. With that being said I'm not sure what the company is doing is really legal. From the description you gave you are a required crew member and the company ops spec should say that. Think about it this way. Could the other pilot do his job with out you in the cockpit? If he can't (which he legally can't fly without you) you are a required crew member.
06-28-2012, 04:28 PM
#6
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How are you logging it in your logbook? SIC? How are you going to explain it when the person interviewing you for your next job asks you to explain SIC time in a 206 (assuming that A/C from your profile)?
You can "justify" it anyway you want but it will be interpreted in light of the regs and ops you were operating under at the time.
You can "justify" it anyway you want but it will be interpreted in light of the regs and ops you were operating under at the time.
Basically the only element we would missing is the view limiting device. I'm sure some interviewers might question that heavily if they see a bunch of safety pilot time in my book, which is what my concern is mainly I guess.
06-28-2012, 07:05 PM
#7
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I wouldn't be logging it as SIC. It would be PIC for the duration the other pilot is conducting the survey mission. In other words I would log it as you would as if you were functioning in a safety pilot capacity. And yes your assumption is correct on the A/C type.
Basically the only element we would missing is the view limiting device. I'm sure some interviewers might question that heavily if they see a bunch of safety pilot time in my book, which is what my concern is mainly I guess.
Basically the only element we would missing is the view limiting device. I'm sure some interviewers might question that heavily if they see a bunch of safety pilot time in my book, which is what my concern is mainly I guess.
06-28-2012, 07:46 PM
#8
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You didn't state that the company had a policy that outlines the ops thats why I said that.
Logging safety pilot time per the FARs is for simulated instrument time with a view limiting device. It would be a far reach to sell it to an inspector or an interview panel explaining it the way you have here. You can log what ever you want to. If you think your time flying is as PIC log it as that and forget the safety pilot time because its going to be hard to sell.
Logging safety pilot time per the FARs is for simulated instrument time with a view limiting device. It would be a far reach to sell it to an inspector or an interview panel explaining it the way you have here. You can log what ever you want to. If you think your time flying is as PIC log it as that and forget the safety pilot time because its going to be hard to sell.
07-01-2012, 12:41 PM
#9
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Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 4
I went through this question before with a job of mine. I decided only to log when I was truly PIC. The time will come and there is no need to log that time you are not sure about. My question to this scenario was about logging TT. There is nothing in the regs that defines logging TT (no PIC or SIC logged). Not that it is worth a whole lot, but from my take on it that is a way to log it without having to worry about getting into trouble. If anyone else has a good take on what they think on it I would like to hear opinions.
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