Champeen07

Im looking into buying a cessna 421 and from all of my research have concluded that they are really good planes if the throttles are flown right. Anyone have any comments about the 421 or know of any planes that are very simliar in size and speed that may not be as expensive to operate? thanks for the help.

AbortAbortAbort

What are you getting it for? Do you really need the pressurization and the big engines?

The geared engines can be a pain, and if they go, they go big. I think they're about 50/50 for making it to TBO under normal usage.

Unless you're pulling some decently far trips that are crossing high terrain and you need good load carrying, there are better planes out there for your mission.

clipperskipper

I managed a newer 421 some years ago along with two 414's and a 402C and have several thousand hours in the type. Flying the 421 as mentioned above takes a little finesse, the propellers can easily start driving the engines when power is reduced below 20" or so, this is where drag profile comes into play. Block speed for the 414 and 421 is typically 170, perhaps 180 on the 421 on a 200 NM length or better. I like the 414 personally, 26" 2300 RPM FF90 gives 170 kts in pressurized and air conditioned comfort, and the 520's easily make TBO where the geared versions may, and remans are horrifically priced. Keep in mind all of the 400 series will incur the spar cap AD, big bucks if not done already.

Walkeraviator

Everything Clipper said but i will add that the gear reduction does make the 421 incredibly quiet for a twin prop aircraft.

SurferLucas

A 414 is a better plane for the money, having flown both of them quite extensively.

You got pretty much equal speed and 10 gals/hr less fuel burn (50 gals/hr vs 40 gals/hr @ 75% hp).

The 414 I've been flying the past year is a 74 with a RAM VI Conversion, it'll do 190-200kts true all day long and has a 2200lb useful load (Full fuel is 1200lbs, so you've got 1000lbs extra with 5 hrs worth of gas).

It's for sale right now if you're looking for a good airplane.

FlyJSH

The things that make the 421 good are the same things that can make them very bad: the engines.

The good....
Quiet: pull the props back and one can almost go without a headset
Should reach TBO if typically flown 1.5 hour or longer legs. Shorter legs can shorten the TBO.
The stuff to watch out for....
Gear Boxes: one must always keep the engines driving the props, not vice versa. Maybe the worst is running near zero thrust where the gears chatter badly.
Jug cracks: nice slow stage cooling can prevent these. We used 1 inch per minute down to 25 inches, and held that until the flair.
The "seventh" injector: We had bad experience with the engines with the seventh injector (used to prime). Maybe it was just our procedures, but we often fought with them when starting hot. Again, maybe that was us.

I would vote for the 414. It has a sportier feel, and the engines are more forgiving. They are a bit louder, but not bad. The slower speed won't be noticed on one hour flights. If you add vortex generators, the payload will come very close to the 421 (the Micro VGs add 350 lbs. to MGTOW).

(I have flown both the 414 and 421s with and without the vortex generators. IMHO they are well worth the cost by increasing safety: the increased MGTOW is just a bonus.)

Champeen07

thanks for the input. it sounds like a 414 will be a little better for what I would use the plane for. mostly hour to 2 hour trips across texas with an occasional trip to colorado or other places about that far. Would the 414 be able to accomplish this? What about other planes that aren't necessarily cessnas?

ryan1234

The 400 series are nice... 414 in particular. All will be fine as long as the pilot isn't an idiot.

To answer your question...it depends on how many people you're trying to move, etc. If they are just an hour or two hour flights, I'd look into something smaller without the pressurization system. The 58 Barons are nice. They're quick too and generally have better performance below 8000' than the pressurized 400 series.

freightdawg

Take a look at the Navajo Chieftans. Unpressurized, but cheaper and abut more forgiving on the wallet.

Walkeraviator

Here is where I put my shameless plug in for buying an Aerostar. It is worse in every category than a 414, but I still love her.