Two Pilot Cessna 340?
03-04-2011, 01:52 PM
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Cessna 210 Turbo
Posts: 50
You have some folks out there who have the money and want peace of mind, and if they can afford it they will pay for two in the cockpit of a 340 or even a 210 (not that I have ever heard of the latter or the former!).
That said, I would investigate it further, if not take the job for the $$$$$ while looking for something else. You can't log the time unless you are at the controls. Perhaps that could happen if the "captain" lets you. That's why I would investigate this further. Maybe the 340's owner is looking for someone to take over the left seat in time. Maybe you can work something out with the guy in the left seat so you can log some time.
Otherwise, I'd go for it while looking for something else. Money is money, and if nothing else comes along in the meantime...
That said, I would investigate it further, if not take the job for the $$$$$ while looking for something else. You can't log the time unless you are at the controls. Perhaps that could happen if the "captain" lets you. That's why I would investigate this further. Maybe the 340's owner is looking for someone to take over the left seat in time. Maybe you can work something out with the guy in the left seat so you can log some time.
Otherwise, I'd go for it while looking for something else. Money is money, and if nothing else comes along in the meantime...
03-04-2011, 02:34 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: 737 Left
Posts: 1,827
Ryan, you are talking about the difference between Acting as PIC and Logging PIC time. Just because you are acting as PIC does not mean that you can log PIC time. If the aircraft and operation only require one pilot, and you aren't the sole manipulator of the flight controls, you can't log PIC, even though you may be acting as PIC.
For example, lets say that I have a friend who has a Piper Cub. He asks me if I want to go flying with him, and I accept, of course! He has a tailwheel endorsement and I don't. As far as the regulations and insurance company are concerned, he is the ACTING PIC for the flight. Now, let's say that I flew the entire flight from takeoff to touchdown. I get to log PIC time because I was the sole manipulator of the flight controls of an aircraft that I was appropriately rated in (and endorsement is not a rating), Airplane Single Engine Land, even though I could not ACT as PIC. My friend can't log anything since he didn't manipulate the controls and the aircraft & operation only requires one pilot, even though he was the ACTING PIC.
Just because you are responsible doesn't mean you get to log time, unfortunately.
I would take the 340 job until something else comes along. You will get some PIC time, you will be home every night, and you will make decent money. Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.
For example, lets say that I have a friend who has a Piper Cub. He asks me if I want to go flying with him, and I accept, of course! He has a tailwheel endorsement and I don't. As far as the regulations and insurance company are concerned, he is the ACTING PIC for the flight. Now, let's say that I flew the entire flight from takeoff to touchdown. I get to log PIC time because I was the sole manipulator of the flight controls of an aircraft that I was appropriately rated in (and endorsement is not a rating), Airplane Single Engine Land, even though I could not ACT as PIC. My friend can't log anything since he didn't manipulate the controls and the aircraft & operation only requires one pilot, even though he was the ACTING PIC.
Just because you are responsible doesn't mean you get to log time, unfortunately.
I would take the 340 job until something else comes along. You will get some PIC time, you will be home every night, and you will make decent money. Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.
03-05-2011, 01:44 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Property Manager
Posts: 69
If they offered it....
Do you guys think this position could be an opportunity for a struggling low time MEI (<500TT)?
Lets say the owner offers to pay you about the same as a 1st year regional FO. You are there for peace of mind of the owner. You split the flying time with the "captain" and log PIC while you are the sole manipulator of the flight controls. You log the other half as CFI. Thoughts?
Do you guys think this position could be an opportunity for a struggling low time MEI (<500TT)?
Lets say the owner offers to pay you about the same as a 1st year regional FO. You are there for peace of mind of the owner. You split the flying time with the "captain" and log PIC while you are the sole manipulator of the flight controls. You log the other half as CFI. Thoughts?
03-05-2011, 02:07 PM
#14
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
At a regional airline? That's the posted I quoted, NOT supplemental 121.
Theoretically they could be stuck out on the road (like you guys), but I'm not aware of any US regionals where that would happen. Commuting is obviously an issue, and could certainly leave one on the road for who knows how long.
If there's something I'm not understanding, I'm all ears. I'm certainly not an expert on 121 rest rules.
Theoretically they could be stuck out on the road (like you guys), but I'm not aware of any US regionals where that would happen. Commuting is obviously an issue, and could certainly leave one on the road for who knows how long.
If there's something I'm not understanding, I'm all ears. I'm certainly not an expert on 121 rest rules.
03-06-2011, 12:20 PM
#15
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
If they offered it....
Do you guys think this position could be an opportunity for a struggling low time MEI (<500TT)?
Lets say the owner offers to pay you about the same as a 1st year regional FO. You are there for peace of mind of the owner. You split the flying time with the "captain" and log PIC while you are the sole manipulator of the flight controls. You log the other half as CFI. Thoughts?
Do you guys think this position could be an opportunity for a struggling low time MEI (<500TT)?
Lets say the owner offers to pay you about the same as a 1st year regional FO. You are there for peace of mind of the owner. You split the flying time with the "captain" and log PIC while you are the sole manipulator of the flight controls. You log the other half as CFI. Thoughts?
03-06-2011, 01:23 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
Kinda off-topic, but as long as you're given 24 hours of consecutive rest every 7 days, it's perfectly legal. Also legal at 121 regionals, but trips that long don't happen because of contractual issues and the fact that the airplanes don't stray too far. 18 on/12 off at 121 supplemental carriers is standard because of worldwide operations. Difficult to position someone to Bahrain and back for a trip in 4 days...
03-06-2011, 02:15 PM
#17
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
03-06-2011, 03:31 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
03-10-2011, 02:29 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: PA-31/left, LJ31/right
Posts: 350
Ryan, you are talking about the difference between Acting as PIC and Logging PIC time. Just because you are acting as PIC does not mean that you can log PIC time. If the aircraft and operation only require one pilot, and you aren't the sole manipulator of the flight controls, you can't log PIC, even though you may be acting as PIC.
For example, lets say that I have a friend who has a Piper Cub. He asks me if I want to go flying with him, and I accept, of course! He has a tailwheel endorsement and I don't. As far as the regulations and insurance company are concerned, he is the ACTING PIC for the flight. Now, let's say that I flew the entire flight from takeoff to touchdown. I get to log PIC time because I was the sole manipulator of the flight controls of an aircraft that I was appropriately rated in (and endorsement is not a rating), Airplane Single Engine Land, even though I could not ACT as PIC. My friend can't log anything since he didn't manipulate the controls and the aircraft & operation only requires one pilot, even though he was the ACTING PIC.
Just because you are responsible doesn't mean you get to log time, unfortunately.
I would take the 340 job until something else comes along. You will get some PIC time, you will be home every night, and you will make decent money. Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.
For example, lets say that I have a friend who has a Piper Cub. He asks me if I want to go flying with him, and I accept, of course! He has a tailwheel endorsement and I don't. As far as the regulations and insurance company are concerned, he is the ACTING PIC for the flight. Now, let's say that I flew the entire flight from takeoff to touchdown. I get to log PIC time because I was the sole manipulator of the flight controls of an aircraft that I was appropriately rated in (and endorsement is not a rating), Airplane Single Engine Land, even though I could not ACT as PIC. My friend can't log anything since he didn't manipulate the controls and the aircraft & operation only requires one pilot, even though he was the ACTING PIC.
Just because you are responsible doesn't mean you get to log time, unfortunately.
I would take the 340 job until something else comes along. You will get some PIC time, you will be home every night, and you will make decent money. Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.
It sounds like by that assertation, every hour logged as an instructor is not logable as PIC.
03-10-2011, 05:40 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: USAF
Posts: 1,398
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