Buying Hours
02-26-2011, 09:50 AM
#31
Respek
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,634
My friends who had access to a light twin during and after our flight training got better jobs much faster than the rest of us.
If you can afford it, do it.
Being a newly commercial pilot is very challenging... for the most part your hours are too low to get a job, and renting a plane is ridiculously expensive. It's either CFI, buy a plane, or get really lucky (like I did).
If you can afford it, do it.
Being a newly commercial pilot is very challenging... for the most part your hours are too low to get a job, and renting a plane is ridiculously expensive. It's either CFI, buy a plane, or get really lucky (like I did).
02-26-2011, 11:22 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: The Far Side
Posts: 968
Proficiency training ... BFR ... etc. Perfectly legal. A lot of dual / PIC from the same CFI might (or might not) raise eyebrows, but it's fine as long as the logbook is signed and endorsed properly. Try to make it real training (approaches, engine problems, ...) rather than just boring holes in the sky. It looks better, IMHO, than the safety pilot PIC kludge (mixing part 1 PIC with part 61), although that has been sanctioned by FAA and is perfectly legal as well.
02-26-2011, 01:26 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,285
My friend was quitting a mapping job right when I finished my commercial ratings, and he happened to be mapping the city that I lived in. So he took me up and trained me on the system, then called his boss and gave his notice and said this guy is ready to go to replace me and is already in this city.
More or less.
About a year later my boss asked me how many hours I had when I started working for him... I had 212 hours, since I went to a 141 school. He later said if he knew that he wouldn't have hired me.
More or less.
About a year later my boss asked me how many hours I had when I started working for him... I had 212 hours, since I went to a 141 school. He later said if he knew that he wouldn't have hired me.
02-26-2011, 01:55 PM
#34
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,016
Alternating giving and receiving dual instruction in the same airplane is going to raise flags.
Somebody could claim they were rusty and needed 10 or even 20 hours of IFR refresher, no problem there. But if you then turn around and give that same refresher to the MEI who gave it to YOU in the first place it just does not make sense.
One of you can be "rusty" One of you can be proficient enough to give instrument instruction. But you cannot both be rusty AND proficient...that looks like fraud. Go with SP, that is what it's for.
02-28-2011, 04:44 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: I pilot
Posts: 2,049
02-28-2011, 07:51 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 270
Oh No You Can't!
This will get you violated, the FAA only allows dual-given for legitimate training purposes, not time building. Training for these sorts of things is legal:
Certs/ratings/privileges
Currency
Proficiency
Aircraft checkout
Rental Checkout
Area/Route familiarization
Insurance checkouts
If you GIVE dual on an airplane, there are few circumstances where you can then turn around and receive dual in the same airplane...examples might be a 141 annual flight check, an area/route fam such as a mountain flying course, or a FR.
But you don't want a logbook full of switch-hitter dual-given...employers will probably not find it amusing either.
This will get you violated, the FAA only allows dual-given for legitimate training purposes, not time building. Training for these sorts of things is legal:
Certs/ratings/privileges
Currency
Proficiency
Aircraft checkout
Rental Checkout
Area/Route familiarization
Insurance checkouts
If you GIVE dual on an airplane, there are few circumstances where you can then turn around and receive dual in the same airplane...examples might be a 141 annual flight check, an area/route fam such as a mountain flying course, or a FR.
But you don't want a logbook full of switch-hitter dual-given...employers will probably not find it amusing either.
If you still don't believe RickAir but are a member of AOPA you can call their member services number and pose the question. They won't steer you wrong.
03-14-2011, 09:22 AM
#37
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 14
I disagree! I am not aware of any FAA Regulation which refers to "time building". FAA Regulations state in reference to logging PIC:
(3) A certificated flight instructor may log pilot in command flight time for all flight time while serving as the authorized instructor in an operation if the instructor is rated to act as pilot in command of that aircraft.
"authorized instructor" is not defined. It would imply to me that the person getting instruction has authorized the Instructor to give instruction. Two instructors can always teach each other something. The paragraph doesn't define what kind or extent of instruction is given.
In addition, logging time is only for the purposes of satisfying the requirements for getting a certificate or rating and for currency. Furthermore, you think the FAA cares what you put in your logbook beyond that? When is the last time the FAA has audited your logbook? I'm sure they have better things to do with their time! I'm not saying that you should log anything other than what is correct and true, but I think Panzon is far off base in "this will get you violated"
(iii) When the pilot, except for a holder of a sport or recreational pilot certificate, acts as pilot in command of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
As to paragraph (iii): Even a pilot without a Flight Instructor Cert. could log PIC if acting as a safety pilot for a pilot flying by reference to instruments under VFR rules.
I have given Flight Instruction to low time Multi-Engine Pilots in my Beechcraft Travel Air but not for the purposes of a rating, certificate, insurance, instrument proficiency, etc.. The purpose was for them to build time/experience/knowledge. I think building time is taken as a negative connotation but in fact it should be taken in a positive manner to build experience and knowledge. I don't need multi-time since I have 6,000 hours multi but I log it anyway because I am giving instruction, but again, not for any specified purpose as above.
As far as getting a job, I've had many flying jobs and interviews and wasn't asked much if any about my logbook much less Flight Instruction Time.
(3) A certificated flight instructor may log pilot in command flight time for all flight time while serving as the authorized instructor in an operation if the instructor is rated to act as pilot in command of that aircraft.
"authorized instructor" is not defined. It would imply to me that the person getting instruction has authorized the Instructor to give instruction. Two instructors can always teach each other something. The paragraph doesn't define what kind or extent of instruction is given.
In addition, logging time is only for the purposes of satisfying the requirements for getting a certificate or rating and for currency. Furthermore, you think the FAA cares what you put in your logbook beyond that? When is the last time the FAA has audited your logbook? I'm sure they have better things to do with their time! I'm not saying that you should log anything other than what is correct and true, but I think Panzon is far off base in "this will get you violated"
(iii) When the pilot, except for a holder of a sport or recreational pilot certificate, acts as pilot in command of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
As to paragraph (iii): Even a pilot without a Flight Instructor Cert. could log PIC if acting as a safety pilot for a pilot flying by reference to instruments under VFR rules.
I have given Flight Instruction to low time Multi-Engine Pilots in my Beechcraft Travel Air but not for the purposes of a rating, certificate, insurance, instrument proficiency, etc.. The purpose was for them to build time/experience/knowledge. I think building time is taken as a negative connotation but in fact it should be taken in a positive manner to build experience and knowledge. I don't need multi-time since I have 6,000 hours multi but I log it anyway because I am giving instruction, but again, not for any specified purpose as above.
As far as getting a job, I've had many flying jobs and interviews and wasn't asked much if any about my logbook much less Flight Instruction Time.
Last edited by travelair; 03-14-2011 at 10:19 AM.
03-15-2011, 07:35 AM
#39
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Piper Apache
A piper Apache it a good way to go as well. Write an operations manual that requires two pilots when flying for the purpose of time building in the Apache. 
Don't forget that buying a job is a good option too. Probably the best one. No gas to buy or plane to work on. More flight time for the dollar as well.
Skyhigh
Don't forget that buying a job is a good option too. Probably the best one. No gas to buy or plane to work on. More flight time for the dollar as well.
Skyhigh
03-15-2011, 09:31 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: I pilot
Posts: 2,049
There is a lengthy thread on that topic
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pa...-fly-jobs.html
Last edited by zondaracer; 03-15-2011 at 10:07 PM.
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