crabinow16

Man I can always rely on you to give something to look foreword to...haahaha

I don't think I could see my self doing anything else. I think the thing that gets to people now a days are the people who tell you to stop *****ing and take your lumps and get a job flying checks......CHECKS? ok I am 22 and the only reason I have checks is to pay my rent. there are things called debit cards now the check industry went away a long time ago.

Then the witty come back is then go do night cargo.

Ok night cargo with two pilots is gone. That is unless you pay for your right seat time...WHICH IS A GIANT NONO....YOU WILL BE PUNISHED IF YOU DO THIS...so again we are back at the issue of what do you do when you have 350 hours and a shiny new degree. I had a couple right seat caravan gigs that I know about and I am definitely willing to take one if it is available just so I can get to the time requirements needed to start doing some PIC work. I will make 1100 a month and eat a quarter of a ramen packet for breakfast, lunch, and Dinner plus that last quarter you keep for when you get delayed and the airport burger is to expensive.

I think that everyone here has some great Ideas for what people can do but I do not believe that I am downgrading this profession by wanting to do something that I love. How many of you can honestly say that if you had just gotten out of college had no financial obligations like kids or a wife and the only way you were going to get your career started was to take a job that paid 17.5K you would say no because your morals or whatever it is wouldn't let you. If i got a call from a regional tomorrow and they said heres a job FO on a regional jet and you will make 17.5K a year and I say I am sorry but that isn't enough. they aren't going to say oh well our mistake the number is really 25K a year...no they are going to say ok and offer it to the guy they interviewed afterwards.

I understand that this isn't enough I would much rather be making the 40K my girl makes working as an assistant front desk manager but I love flying and this is the way the industry is. I would love to change it but I am not going to pass up a job because of it. Yeah I will have to live with 6 guys in small apartment that will probably be upstairs from a guy who cooks meth but you never know 5 years down the road I might be fine making an ok salary and doing what I love plus I will have some fun stories to tell. Look on the sunny side guys your all doing something that you enjoy...would you rather be workign at the front desk of a hotel?

crewdawg

Not an attack at you crabinow16...more towards our generation.

RESEARCH!!! I went through a college flight school and all those guys knew, or though about, was a particular regional. They all whined about instructing, while they passed up jobs at places like AirNet/Flight Express/Ram Air, or any other job not instructing (back when even with 1200 hrs you couldn't get a job at the regionals). So they went on instructing and complaining about making 1k/month and only getting about 30-50 hours a month. They were all so closed minded and to lazy to research all the other job opportunities out there. So when I brought up freight, aerial mapping/photography, banner towing, traffic watch, flying jumper, etc...they all scoffed. One of my buddies took note, instructed during the school year and spent his summers breaks dragging banners up and down the beach. So when he graduated he had >1500 hours vs. closed minded instructors <600ish. He even managed to scrounge up >100 hours multi from the contacts he made towing banners. He got a night freight job and worked his way up to left seat in a lear before most of his college classmates finished their first year at a regional.

So when people whine about no ways of getting hours it makes me laugh! There are ways of getting time, even in todays economy, you just have to do research, make calls and not be afraid to move out of your current environment.

[Rant]
The problem with going to a 141 school and subsequently instructing there, is you make no contacts. All the good ones that are local have already been found out, so now you're just waiting for the guys ahead of you to move on so you can get your piece of the pie. We even had a instructor that had ~1800 TT/ ~400 Multi, who would take almost all the multi students. Thus, not give the lower MEI's a chance to get the 100 multi hours need to get on at a regional. He stayed because he was sure that X regional would call any day....they finally did, after about 10 MEI's below him had already PAID for their 100 multi hours. I wanted to kick that guy square in the junk every day! But he is shinning example of what is wrong with our industry today.....he had his!
[/rant]

SkyHigh

Love flying, but remember to love yourself more. Your career should be about compensation not fun. Save that for the weekends. Start now on your plan "B" because eventually the fun wears off and all you are left with is a crummy profession.

Skyhigh

P.S. All that is really going to be out there for new pilots is the 17.5K jobs. After you have been a struggling CFI for a few years it will begin to look pretty good.

Cruz5350

Epic fail... So you think you are ready for the airlines at 350TT? Please I don't have much more time than you and I know that I wouldnt be much more than a flap and gear monkey instead of a required crewmember.

SkyHigh

As pilots we all pay for our careers. Some in cash others in wasted years of their lives. It starts with college and flight training then miserable years of low wage high risk pilot jobs to build experience. All with few guarantees of anything.

What if all that separated you was another $10,000? No more risk, rejections or doubts. Just a 10K check and the class date at the major airline of your dreams. Would you do it?

Skyhigh

TonyWilliams

Hopefully there will be less guys like you who will accept these DEPLORABLE conditions. Less guys means pay will go up, and conditions will get better.

Student starts are WAY down. That's good, because, honestly, if the USA didn't make a single additional commercial pilot this year, THERE ARE STILL TOO MANY !

The 1500 / ATP should help. It will be very competitive to get from 350 TT to 1500. I'm not convinced that the rule won't ultimately be sabotaged with exceptions for guys like you with something similar to your current qualifications.

The retirement boom of Dec 2012 should help to open up the top end of the profession. However, I don't think we'll ever get to the part where starting wages will be anything but deplorable, because I believe that no matter what the conditions, guys will continue to "pursue their lifelong dream, 'cuz they can't imagine doing anything else".

For you, unless you accept what the industry has to offer, you need to find another industry.

Purpleanga

There will be plenty. At least until the 1500 hour rule kicks in. Then the airlines will be completely out of gas. It's going to be interesting to see how they handle it.

mshunter

Even when the 1500hr rule kicks in, there are still a ton of guys on the street with 3500/4000hrs plus. And they still need jobs as much as the guy does with 1500hrs. The only thing that will ever change the pay rates is if ALL pilots stand together and tell the regionals to F.O. with their poverty level wages, or get the governmebt to step in and say "this is what they need to make!"

Niether of the two will never happen. So either accept it, or move on.

Ziggy

I really love this subject of let's blame the woe's of the industry on someone, anyone. It must be the in coming generation and their willingness to accept "sub-standard compensation". Or the Old-timers and the lack of giving up their seats, or hogging all the riches of the company.
A friend of mine and I started our careers together. He went airline, I took the cargo and then corporate. Today at this point we both make the same pay. He took the 20K a year first year FO, I took the 32K freight dog job. Probably even 6 years into our profession I may have grossed more overall. But at the regionals he will get higher pay faster and will probably end up making more in the long run. That's ok, because all you can do is make your decisions and do your best. Then the rest is up to life. I agree that minimum requirements should be set for 121 ops. Do I think it will raise pay? Probably not. But to sit here and blame the next generation for the low wages at airlines is kind of hypocritical. The first place you probably might look is at the unions.

mshunter