JohnBurke

You're reading. Just not comprehending.

Instruction isn't taking place. The owner "just likes someone to go up with him."

The original poster is seeking to find a way to call it instruction and log it.

Again, that instruction given can be logged has never been in question. This is obvious and not debatable. This was never asked, and is irrelevant.

More on point is the question whether the instructor can ride around with the owner and find a way to call it instruction in order to justify logging it, as this is a logging question. Not a question over whether flight training given can be logged. Not at all. It's a question regarding whether riding around with an owner can be twisted just enough to justify padding one's logbook.

This is not correct. It's also irrelevant to the thread.

The question of compensation does not reside in the second flight, but in whether the three passengers on the second legal provided compensation in any form for the transportation. The owner does not need to be aboard.

In fact, if the owner is aboard and property or persons are carried for compensation or hire from one point to another, then the owners presence doesn't change the nature of the flight; it's still illegal without an operating certificate.

Blackhawk

1. I reposted the OP exactly. As the OP originally posted he is legal to do so. Again, the amount of flight time possessed by the owner of the airplane, which many subsequent posters concentrated on, is irrelevant to giving and logging instruction.
2. You are correct. I was merely giving a simplified example to try and demonstrate that receiving compensation as a commercial pilot is perfectly legal outside the realm of 135 certificate. People tend to get caught up in pro rata cost sharing when it does not apply. There are many "what if's" and "gotcha's" for pilots in those operations.

https://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/186346-1.html

JohnBurke

The issue of pro-rata is applicable to private pilots, and very irrelevant to this discussion. If that's the tack you'd prefer, one may as well go even farther afield and tackle the issue of holding out, which would be along the same line, but equally as irrelevant.

The original poster did not provide enough information, save that the owner allows him along for the ride, just likes someone to "go along," and "takes him up" frequently. There is no indication that the flights are instructional. The only indication of instruction that might take place is theoretical and offered as a wave, a justification to find a way to legally log the time. Thus far, such justification has not been provided.

Blackhawk

The post I responded to reference pro rata share was stating that the OP could not operate the owners airplane as a commercial pilot for the owner as the flight time would considered compensation. This poster was confusing the idea of flight time as compensation for private pilots when figuring pro rata share or for commercial pilots doing common carriage and the idea of a commercial pilot being compensated for private carriage, which is perfectly legal.
Second, you need to learn how to read. Once again, the original post-

"I met this guy who owns a cirrus and takes me up quite frequently can I log this a dual given as long as I teach him something in flight? He has thousands of hours and just likes someone to go up with him. "
My emphasis. One more time. If instruction is given on a flight, instruction can be logged. I have a friend who owns a VariEze. Occasionally I go flying with him. Sometimes when I fly with him he asks for instruction, such as a flight review or instrument work. When I give him instruction and log it as such in his logbook I log it as instruction given in my logbook. Shhh... don't tell the FAA.

TheRaven

“And takes me up”.......you’re a passenger...his flying buddy. You’re not instructing. You know it, he knows it, your logbook should reflect it (this time shouldn’t appear in there).

Integrity costs nothing, yet means everything.....don’t give yours up to log a few hours of meaningless time.

Blackhawk

You only quoted part of his post. “...as long as I teach him something.”
Please quote the FAA regulation that puts a limit on not being able to log instruction when it’s given. Won’t find one.
Again, I gobup with many friends in their airplanes. Sometimes we just go for the $100 hamburger, sometimes they ask me to teach them some things. Sometimes they just want an instructor along while they fly under the hood so I can coach and instruct them. Sometimes I just hang out and enjoy the view after getting the $100 hamburger.
When instruction takes place it is logged. When it isn’t I’m a passenger. Sometimes I just go up with them.

Blackhawk

People need to distinguish between personal feelings and legalities.
Instruction given can be legally logged. End of story. Show me a case where the FAA has taken action against someone who properly logged dual given.

JohnBurke

Why would I do that? It's not in question. Never has been. Irrelevant.

No one here has disputed the obvious, including me. Yet you keep making this superfluous argument.

How nice for you. And your hamburger. Still irrelevant.

A Squared

I think you need to distinguish between personal feelings and ethics. Admittedly, the boundary between the two is a little fuzzy in places. As I agreed with you in a previous post if Crow and Pearson had filled their logbooks out so that all the legs for which they were both logging PIC at the same time, showed dual given and dual received in both their logbooks, the FAA would not have been able to touch them. That said, it is still falsification, just falsification skillfully enough that it's probably immune from enforcement. Because, lets be serious, they were not giving each other instruction for 200 flights worth, they were double logging time and screwed up how they falsified their logs. The fact that there was a way in which they could have falsified their logs which would have made them safe from FAA enforcement doesn't make their actions ethical. "The FAA can't get me" is a pretty poor bar for "ethical".

Blackhawk

Because the OP said he occasionally gives instruction. End of story right there. If he is giving instruction he can log instruction unless you can show me where the FAA says otherwise.