NetJets Tentative Agreement - thoughts?
04-20-2024, 12:40 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 278
As far as the soft money towards retirement, one third of your fdp goes into the 401k as direct contribution. Fdp varies by fleet and changes every tour. With the new fdp rates and higher company match to the 401k I believe you will see more people come close or meet the max allowable contributions.
04-22-2024, 02:11 PM
#82
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 91K
Posts: 76
I think most fleets average between 20-25 hours per tour. So plan on about 10-15 hours of FDP. I would guess that you can add about 10% on top of base pay for overtime, night pay etc..
04-22-2024, 03:34 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 179
This is a retread of a post I made a year ago in a different thread. I updated the post with the proposed numbers from 2024TA. If the TA does not pass, these numbers will be invalid. In addition, since the time of the original post the company has stopped providing quarterly updates to average flight times in the fleets. These numbers are from over a year ago, and there was only one additional update after that (if my memory serves me correctly). The updated numbers were fairly similiar. Anecdotal evidence from the XLS/Sovereign fleets seem to indicate that average flight times have decreased in those fleets. Not too sure about the other fleets. Finally, the IOE wait times have gone way out in several of the fleets. The Phenom has had folks waiting 6 months before starting IOE. There could be quite a bit of variance on first year pay just due to IOE wait time depending on fleet.
Updated info in italics.
---
2024TA Year 1 Base Wages are as follows -
7/7 & CC60 - $90,543
8/6 - $105,029
CC52 - $86,015 (And yes, new hires have been successful in bidding this schedule depending on fleet)
CC72 - $110,462
CC76 - $117,706
Based on the most recent data from the Union on fleet averages - The lowest new hire fleet is averaging 2.88 hours per day. The highest new hire fleet is averaging 3.65 hours per day. The average for all the new hire fleets is 3.26 hours per day.
*This is where it gets a little subjective in how to apply these data points* This is my recommendation for estimating first year pay (disclaimer: it may only be worth what you paid for it) -
I would expect 4 (potentially longer) months on the training pay schedule (CC72). I think that is a fair average at this point (this might even be on the low side). Some may be way longer, some may be shorter. After that you can choose your desired schedule (from a list of available options) until the next bid. Starting the first bid after completion of IOE, you bid like everyone else. When calculating hour many tours you will be able to earn FDP, I would suggest planning on only the tours after the completion of the training schedule to give you a safer answer. So for example on the 7/7, I would recommend only planning on 16 tours or 112 days (26 yearly tours - 8 missed tours while on the CC76 - 1 tour vacation - 1 tour recurrent). The CC schedules make this part more complicated. For days available to earn FDP, I would take total days worked in two bid periods minus 14 days (vacation and recurrent). So for the CC76, I would recommend estimating 138 days (152 days for two bid periods of the CC76 - 7 days for vacation - 7 days for recurrent). Since the CC schedules tour lengths are not set, it is not as easy to determine how many tours you will work. But, I think it is fair to estimate an average of 3 tours per month, or 22 tours your first year (24 tours for 8 months - 1 tour vacation - 1 tour recurrent).
Base pay = (CC72 Base x .34) + (Desired Schedule x .66)
FDP = ((Days available to earn FDP x fleet average per day) - (Tours worked x 10)) x 200
Example for 7/7 and the lowest FDP fleet
(110462 x .34) + (90543 x .66)
37557.08 + 59758.38
Base pay = $97,315.46
((112 x 2.88) - (16 x 10)) x 200
(322.56 - 160) x 200
FDP = $32,512
Total Year 1 = $129,827.46
Example for CC76 and highest FDP fleet
(110462 x .34) + (117706 x .66)
37557.08 + 77685.96
Base pay = $115,243.04
((138 x 3.65) - (22 x 10)) x 200
(503.7 - 220) x 200
FDP = $56,740
Total Year 1 = $171,983.04
All of this to say, I think a reasonable year one range would be between $129,827 to $171,983 if the 2024TA passes (delays in IOE can quickly reduce your earning potential). You can plug and play with the various schedules and FDP values to match your expected situation. Common knowledge is to plan only on your guaranteed base pay. For which you can still use these calculations to figure out base pay dependent on schedule choice, just ignore the FDP portion. However, if you are trying to determine what you might expect with FDP, I would suggest planning on getting assigned to the lowest FDP fleet.
Before everyone jumps on "well but what about" - Yes, some people make more than this and some people make less. As I said before, there will be outliers and those who are above or below these averages. That's the nature of the game here/averages, some things you just have no control over. Yes, if it takes longer to begin IOE that will reduce the number of tours available to make FDP, thus reducing total year 1 compensation. On the flip side, you will stay on the CC72 pay longer, which could raise your base pay if you intend on picking a lesser schedule after IOE. Yes, I did not factor in overnight, NFAD, holiday, after midnights, extended days, etc. These would all add to total year one compensation, but these are even more elusive to tie down good data backed average for how much you are going to get. Yes, you do not take home 100% of the FDP pay, 1/3 of your FDP will go straight to your 401k. That will be deducted before it ever hits your bank account in addition to all your other taxes/deductions. Yes, these fleet averages change, and the next round of data we may see a decrease. All you can do is make as educated decision as you can with the data available. Remember these fleet averages are over a year old at this point. Yes, Netjets compensation is hard to understand. 18 months here and I'm still learning how some of the soft money is calculated. I'd love to see it simplified in future contracts and less dependent on luck. Finally, no, I am not saying you are guaranteed to break $100,00 in your first year. However, if 2024TA passes it is much more likely that breaking $100,000 your first year is very likely.
Updated info in italics.
---
2024TA Year 1 Base Wages are as follows -
7/7 & CC60 - $90,543
8/6 - $105,029
CC52 - $86,015 (And yes, new hires have been successful in bidding this schedule depending on fleet)
CC72 - $110,462
CC76 - $117,706
Based on the most recent data from the Union on fleet averages - The lowest new hire fleet is averaging 2.88 hours per day. The highest new hire fleet is averaging 3.65 hours per day. The average for all the new hire fleets is 3.26 hours per day.
*This is where it gets a little subjective in how to apply these data points* This is my recommendation for estimating first year pay (disclaimer: it may only be worth what you paid for it) -
I would expect 4 (potentially longer) months on the training pay schedule (CC72). I think that is a fair average at this point (this might even be on the low side). Some may be way longer, some may be shorter. After that you can choose your desired schedule (from a list of available options) until the next bid. Starting the first bid after completion of IOE, you bid like everyone else. When calculating hour many tours you will be able to earn FDP, I would suggest planning on only the tours after the completion of the training schedule to give you a safer answer. So for example on the 7/7, I would recommend only planning on 16 tours or 112 days (26 yearly tours - 8 missed tours while on the CC76 - 1 tour vacation - 1 tour recurrent). The CC schedules make this part more complicated. For days available to earn FDP, I would take total days worked in two bid periods minus 14 days (vacation and recurrent). So for the CC76, I would recommend estimating 138 days (152 days for two bid periods of the CC76 - 7 days for vacation - 7 days for recurrent). Since the CC schedules tour lengths are not set, it is not as easy to determine how many tours you will work. But, I think it is fair to estimate an average of 3 tours per month, or 22 tours your first year (24 tours for 8 months - 1 tour vacation - 1 tour recurrent).
Base pay = (CC72 Base x .34) + (Desired Schedule x .66)
FDP = ((Days available to earn FDP x fleet average per day) - (Tours worked x 10)) x 200
Example for 7/7 and the lowest FDP fleet
(110462 x .34) + (90543 x .66)
37557.08 + 59758.38
Base pay = $97,315.46
((112 x 2.88) - (16 x 10)) x 200
(322.56 - 160) x 200
FDP = $32,512
Total Year 1 = $129,827.46
Example for CC76 and highest FDP fleet
(110462 x .34) + (117706 x .66)
37557.08 + 77685.96
Base pay = $115,243.04
((138 x 3.65) - (22 x 10)) x 200
(503.7 - 220) x 200
FDP = $56,740
Total Year 1 = $171,983.04
All of this to say, I think a reasonable year one range would be between $129,827 to $171,983 if the 2024TA passes (delays in IOE can quickly reduce your earning potential). You can plug and play with the various schedules and FDP values to match your expected situation. Common knowledge is to plan only on your guaranteed base pay. For which you can still use these calculations to figure out base pay dependent on schedule choice, just ignore the FDP portion. However, if you are trying to determine what you might expect with FDP, I would suggest planning on getting assigned to the lowest FDP fleet.
Before everyone jumps on "well but what about" - Yes, some people make more than this and some people make less. As I said before, there will be outliers and those who are above or below these averages. That's the nature of the game here/averages, some things you just have no control over. Yes, if it takes longer to begin IOE that will reduce the number of tours available to make FDP, thus reducing total year 1 compensation. On the flip side, you will stay on the CC72 pay longer, which could raise your base pay if you intend on picking a lesser schedule after IOE. Yes, I did not factor in overnight, NFAD, holiday, after midnights, extended days, etc. These would all add to total year one compensation, but these are even more elusive to tie down good data backed average for how much you are going to get. Yes, you do not take home 100% of the FDP pay, 1/3 of your FDP will go straight to your 401k. That will be deducted before it ever hits your bank account in addition to all your other taxes/deductions. Yes, these fleet averages change, and the next round of data we may see a decrease. All you can do is make as educated decision as you can with the data available. Remember these fleet averages are over a year old at this point. Yes, Netjets compensation is hard to understand. 18 months here and I'm still learning how some of the soft money is calculated. I'd love to see it simplified in future contracts and less dependent on luck. Finally, no, I am not saying you are guaranteed to break $100,00 in your first year. However, if 2024TA passes it is much more likely that breaking $100,000 your first year is very likely.
04-25-2024, 02:09 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 454
Goerge, meet pasture. Pasture, meet George.
04-25-2024, 04:11 AM
#87
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,725
I bet you'll care when you get your new check Georgie Boy! Since you don't care, please let Aj and the team know that you'll be remaining at the old rate and donating your time for less. Is the fact you don't care have anything to do with your general lack of caring throughout your whole career? Your general lack of care much less doing your job without hand holding from a stronger right seater. Sit down! Let the adults do the talking. We all know who you are GD. It's no secret. The fact you don't care says you need new leaders. Vote is coming regardless of the dog and pony show Prince Pedro is running. Dues refunds? Give me a break. Bet you'll take that too. My bad, you probably don't care about that either.
Goerge, meet pasture. Pasture, meet George.
Goerge, meet pasture. Pasture, meet George.
Would you like to try for Double Jeopardy when the scores can REALLY change?
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