Unless he edited the post after your reply, he said that in the same post. You don't need the last word when someone is already agreeing with you.

I am merely pointing out the adjusting of the pay gap because airlines pay for health insurance, can go both ways.

The insurance can definitely go both ways, so you should have argued that instead of going back to the apples to oranges years of service that the union used to conflate the number. He already hammered that along side you. I agree it is a misleading comparison used in the TA primer. Most of us see the comparisons in the primer as very suspect and manipulated statistics.

Those who are debating about whether or not to sign up for an interesting career that will include a whole lot of flogging need to understand the numbers and how they will pertain to the remainder of their career. The primer doesn't really show that unless you spend the time to analyze the actual numbers for each year of service. The actual numbers show that even though the very top of the scales and the very bottom of the scales were able to keep within sight distance of pay at at the majors (not including retirement), those middle 12 years are a whole lot of career left in the dust. The pay scales at NetJets go up very evenly from year one to 14 while the airlines crank up the FO pay greatly for a few years before evening out to a slow climb and they start the PIC scales quite high at year one and they don't get so wildly different by the top. The monetary difference over a career is just massive, not even including the staggering difference in retirement contributions from the employers. The pay scales are simply light years behind over a career.

When the new TA came out, I did a VERY detailed financial comparison for myself (39 years old, year 3 Phenom PIC). I accounted for variables such as profit sharing, health insurance, DC, etc.

I used my current position at NJ as a PIC with 25.5 years left until age 65 compared to a move to a Major that has a hub where I live. I assumed not upgrading until year 8 at said Major since the current most junior Captain is a year 8 guy and I don’t want to commute to a junior base just to have a fourth stripe.

Interestingly, with choosing to wait to upgrade, the break even point on annual income is actually 16 years if I make the move. From that 16 years to retirement however, my salary would be far greater by making a move. On the order of $900,000 over 25.5 years.

The retirement account is where the real difference is seen. Going to a Major airline now means a difference of $5 million in my 401K.

So, while the new TA would offer a respectable income and retirement, it will earn me about $6 million less than a move to a Major airline. This is all while working on average 72 less days a year AND not working 12-14 hour duty days for 7 days straight.

Obviously, the difference for someone even a few years younger would be exponentially greater. We’re talking multiple millions more.

I stopped reading when you said you lived in base at a legacy airline 😂. IMO, that’s a simple choice.

For those living in middle of nowhere, a few years older, a few kids, a 2 leg commute etc….. might not be worth it of course.

So are you leaving?

Interview next week, and if I am lucky enough to get the offer, absolutely! The money isn’t even the primary motivator. Just got back from a tour, two fatigues, and I still feel like I was pushed through a meat grinder; unfortunately that will never change at NJ.

See you later. All of EWR 787 FO's are going on reserve for the summer.

What does that tell you?

Who's hiring that has an 8 year upgrade?

It means 73 hrs pay/month to play golf?

This.

I have worked exactly 15.5 hours this month. Paid 79 hours to barely work and be at home with the family. I bid reserve even though I can hold a line lol...

Last I checked, the most junior PIC at the PHX base is an 8 year guy. Waiting for that as a senior FO seems much more attractive than commuting.

Upgrade is not based on bases.

Thank Capt. Obvious. I would not want to upgrade until being able to hold PHX. Essentially a self-imposed 8 year wait to upgrade. Unless of course junior guy in PHX starts to become more junior.

When does the ballot close?

April 12. Official date of signing will apparently be May 1.

Yes, it's going to pass.

73 percent.

What's your guess.

70...ish.

Not really important. 50.5 is all it takes.

Still don't care.

Outsider. Am I’m correct, new hire pay is significantly below FJ new hire pay?

Don't know. REALLY don't care.

Probably similar if the NetJets pilot works the same amount of days, gets through training reasonably quickly, and gets assigned a busy fleet verses the XLS or Sovereign. There are many, many variables that will affect the pay and many are outside the NetJets pilot's ability to choose.

I think they've got something messed up here it's shown a $151,000. for base pay 1 year SIC


https://i.imgur.com/fFvAcqD.jpeg

i believe that is the new Base Pay. What is it that you think is incorrect?

*Should the TA pass* 8/6 starting base pay would be $105,029. 8/6 appears to be the closest schedule to the number of days Flex says their FlexBid schedule works. So roughly $45k less in base pay. Honestly there is a huge arguement to be made that Flex's starting pay should be more than NJA since Flex is requiring twice the experience to be hired. In a previous post on this thread, I laid out my thoughts on what a realistic estimation of NJA first year pay could be. Like someone else said, first year pay at NJA is can be very dependent on fleet assignment and speed through the training pipeline. Both of which are out of your control. However, using the information I laid out previously (find the post for details), I would estimate first year NJA on the 8/6 under the new TA would likely be between $146k-$166k. In the end I think the pay is likely in a similiar range, just much more dependent on soft money at NJA.

Thanks for the explanation. I provide career counseling and mentoring so that’s good info to know.

Best of luck with the TA.

Passed...
 

Sounds like it passed. Congrats if you were rooting for it. Too bad if you weren't.

Still don't care...

My last gig. Same goes for the "leadership". AMF.

Was you last gig, Ameriflight, AMF? Serious question… so many acronyms nowadays, I’m not sure what AMF is, if it is one.

Stands for "adios mother .........". Can be used as a term of endearment, or otherwise.

Lol….. thanks….. I’m not sure why Google couldn’t translate that for me…

Well known phrase in the fighter community long ago, but things could well have changed. Eg: this coin thing. Used to be "deceased insect". Don't know if that's even referenced in the history books. Better IMO, and didn't wear a hole in your pocket.

Random question… what was the top pay rate in 2020? Curious how the post COVID inflation affected the top rate.

2020 7/7 small cabin year 14-$176000
2024 7/7 small cabin year 14-$237000

Base pay only.

Any chance we can get the company profile page updated to reflect the new pay and benefits?

if you, or anyone has updates and has a NetJets email, send your updates by PM here to Rickair7777. He will vet it as not spam, and then forward it on to IB for updating.

Rick is the prime moderator on these forums and has volunteered to do this.

To clarify- the 176K was the rate in 2020 on the 2020 contract. This year, the top small cabin 7&7PIC pay was 193K on the 2020 contract before increasing 23% more to 237K on May 1st as the 2024 contract takes effect.

Didn’t the 2020 contract come late in the year? What was the 2020 rate on the 2015 contract?

By the way, I’m really impressed with the increase in rates. You guys are doing a great job.

If I remember correctly, the 2015 contract pay rates only got inflation bumps at the end for the 2018 and 2020 contracts so the base salary in 2020 would have been the same as the tables that were in the 2015 contract. The 2018 and 2020 contracts mostly added FDP and then increased the FDP without adjusting the base.

Hi everyone,
I just interviewed at FJ, and have my NJ interview coming up.
I have a couple of questions.

How long are upgrades to the left seat these days?

Is there any way to estimate the soft money so I can estimate the retirement contribution?

Thanks in advance!