Originally Posted by AntiPeter

Why would the company want to terminate profit sharing? So they don't have to open the books and they can avoid transparency?

Originally Posted by STzBack

No sh!t the leadership is divived. Obviously. But it's more like "the majority of the leadership tends to suggest the YES vote, one guy is for war at all cost". Because all he wants is war and destruction, more than an actual deal".
Your camp has been telling us for 36 months that the company had no choice but to come to the table. You've been endorsing shaming pilots who extended, letting names be published on the MB, you cried for all TRs to resign, you've shamed those who took new TR jobs, you bashed new hires and the younger generation, you've told the world in ads that they were dangerous and lacked experienced, you then bashed the same training that you are a result of saying in public ads that it was dangerous, you used the attrition card before we had attrition, you rushed to the safety card in desperation, you post on the MB to brag when you AOG a plane on a daily basis because "I feel this isn't good, could maintenance have a look at it" and when you call fatigue every time your fart really stinks.you predicted an exodus never seen in history, you predicted a total collapse of the company durting the Holidays, etc, etc, etc. "

Where's the exodus? How's the hiring doing? Holiday season was pretty bad with all the "fatigue" and AOG everytime "I feel this isn't good, could maintenance have a look at it" calls. Result? No melt down as predicted. Depsite all the useful idiots on the MB being very aggressive towards the rest of the group, what happened? NJA had probably the busiest day of its history this weekend. And a succesful one at that. Because the majority of the group is doing the job we are paid for and were hired for. We all read the cba's before we signed, we knew what the pay was, especially those who came here in the past 3 years.

You keep selling job actions for a pipe dream, that incredible no condition deal that keeps on not showing up. Motivation/participation in union actions among the group is at it's lowest. There were no more than 40 people (including family members) who were going to show up at the Vegas SB picket.

As far as the EFPP as I have said many times before, whenever it is paid in 2025, it's peanuts money for 70% of the group. Surely not the hill I'll lose men for and definitely not worth sacrificing a 51% base pay increase for (not counting increase in FDP, 401K, last day OT, increase in compesation for check-airmen/training captains, etc).

So, vote No for nothing but endless war and arrive in 2029 looking back at the 6 years of potential money lost? No thanks, I would rather be comfortable when I arrive at the next fight.

I will wait for the details and the fine prints as soon as they release that to us and we will see.

Originally Posted by 60av8tor

Not sure what your pay scale is - the info on the NJ profile here is like code to me - but doesn't look like any FO base pay is much under 70k. You're saying the majority of guys you fly with can't survive on that?

Originally Posted by yankeepilot42

It will pass. The majority of the Captains I fly with don’t want to lose out on the gains being offered in the near term. The majority of the new FOs I fly with can’t make it financially on the tours with no or low FDP pay so they will vote yes too.

Originally Posted by tm602

Forgive me for pooping in my $.02 when you didn't ask me, but things are mighty fine at Luv if you want to consider that in your escape plan.

Originally Posted by tm602

The words came right out of your mouth.

Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn...

Part of me hopes this place burns to the ground. The way management is operating the joint, that outcome is more likely than kumbaya. Jusssss sayin...

And if people in YOUR camp had done a damn thing, we wouldn't be stuck with this POS.

Originally Posted by Swedepilut

Not with a roar but with a whimper,

The negotiating team isn't even in agreement. That should tell you tons. Negotiating team says one thing. Eboard says another. Sounds like the plan was flawed from the beginning. Maybe don't shoot your shot at first when we are in IBB not full blown negotiations.

A negotiating team member saying vote no either means there is divide or they are off to the airlines and could care less......

Kumbaya

Originally Posted by AntiPeter

It's a huge positive the union is finally not in agreement, especially considering this AIP is likely inadequate and flawed.

Maybe perhaps it is the beginning of a new era where the union isn't negotiating away QOL and leverage? A lot of good came from the "FAB 5" 2004 failures, a regime change is long overdue.

Originally Posted by Chris99

Anyone who is on the fence about whether or not to stay at NJs should be paying close attention to the responses in this thread and the poll that has been posted. WB is a genius at pitting senior pilots against junior pilots and getting his managers to negotiate long-term contracts that may or may not even keep pace with inflation. Just before the 2015 TA came out, I had a captain tell me he would vote "yes" on a TA whether or not it had ANY raises in it or not (he had child support and two mortgages to pay). Too many people have the "golden handcuffs" mindset to do anything but vote "yes" no matter how bad the TA is or what the union recommends. And the FDP program was pure genius to keep people flying no matter what. I wish you guys would get pay/retirement/QOL commensurate with the airlines for the amount of work you do, but it's just not going to happen. Ask on the MB whether the pay, benefits, and workload will ever match 121 and you will get an honest answer. Unless the type of flying, no commuting, and no health care premiums are too good to pass up for you, I would question how much you really want to work somewhere where your hard work isn't properly compensated--especially when the majors are hiring like gangbusters. The ONLY way your pay goes up significantly at NJs is if 121 pay increases and people start leaving NJs for 121--which is the only reason you even have this TA option right now. I enjoyed my time at NJs (10+ years, 5 of them furloughed), but the pay, retirement, and QOL I could get at a legacy airline forced me to quit and I haven't looked back since... Good luck and I wish you the best.