Agreement In Principal
02-10-2024, 10:30 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 45
No, it won't pass.
We have some ignorant folks, but w/o the allure of a signing bonus and a minimal raise (something like 26%), I think even the ignorant will vote No.
i have a question for the folks questioning union leadership... how many pickets have you been to? How many extended days did you pick up? How many times did you fly fatigued or wait to write a plane up until you got to a service hub?
I ask b/c the big bad union leadership has stated many times we will get what we fight for. Guys like obiden love to rail against leadership while supplying no leverage for the fight. Then he calls the guys IN the fight morons. Some are beyond help.
Guys like obiden and jmo will likely vote yes to this POS. They will do it b/c they were never in the fight to begin with, and well, 26% for zero effort makes sense to them.
If you want more, vote no (as our negotiators think you should) and get involved.
We have some ignorant folks, but w/o the allure of a signing bonus and a minimal raise (something like 26%), I think even the ignorant will vote No.
i have a question for the folks questioning union leadership... how many pickets have you been to? How many extended days did you pick up? How many times did you fly fatigued or wait to write a plane up until you got to a service hub?
I ask b/c the big bad union leadership has stated many times we will get what we fight for. Guys like obiden love to rail against leadership while supplying no leverage for the fight. Then he calls the guys IN the fight morons. Some are beyond help.
Guys like obiden and jmo will likely vote yes to this POS. They will do it b/c they were never in the fight to begin with, and well, 26% for zero effort makes sense to them.
If you want more, vote no (as our negotiators think you should) and get involved.
You chant "fly the contract" and then criticize anyone for extending, all while many of you are on the CC76LT. Gimme a fkn break. You are the most hypocritical frauds around.
BTW, 0 extended days, fatigue when tired, and never chase the petty FDP carrot, amongst other things I do to bring us leverage that the union failed to obtain. Voted no to the last POS and voting no to this POS.
And ******* your pickets
02-10-2024, 10:39 AM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 88
I am not at AA. But my QOL, pay, and benefits outweigh those who were in my NJA new hire class that didn't leave. I am personally really happy. The pros and cons are subjective, but the basing choices are the best in the industry at NJA, no argument there. I work less, make more, and am less tired when I work, so for me it was worth it.
I was really excited to hear that you guys had an AIP, I'm legitimately bummed that it isn't the home run you guys were expecting.
I was really excited to hear that you guys had an AIP, I'm legitimately bummed that it isn't the home run you guys were expecting.
. Thus the question about whether you think you made a good decision to leave.Sorry I thought you were at AA. Wherever you went, making more and working less is the goal.
02-10-2024, 10:52 AM
#23
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: The Jet
Posts: 1,065
We are all bummed. I was angry when I first read it, now resigned to keep up the fight. And maybe work on my escape plan . Thus the question about whether you think you made a good decision to leave.
Sorry I thought you were at AA. Wherever you went, making more and working less is the goal.
. Thus the question about whether you think you made a good decision to leave.Sorry I thought you were at AA. Wherever you went, making more and working less is the goal.
I was really confused by NJASAPs tactics during this entire negotiation process, and this is just another step in the confusion.
02-10-2024, 11:08 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 308
I am anything BUT a union cheerleader but I'm not in the mood to give you the history lesson.
The only conceivable reason for an AIP this bad is to have it fail by a wide margin in the hopes of sending a louder message. You either haven't been reading the statements by the negotiating committee members or you have no ability to read between the lines.
Anybody that votes for this POS doesn't have the intellect to operate an airplane.
The only conceivable reason for an AIP this bad is to have it fail by a wide margin in the hopes of sending a louder message. You either haven't been reading the statements by the negotiating committee members or you have no ability to read between the lines.
Anybody that votes for this POS doesn't have the intellect to operate an airplane.
AA had a couple nego committees resign en masse rather than put out an inferior TA.
Hope you guys get the most you can!
02-10-2024, 03:42 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 531
When was the last time NJA pilots voted down an agreement that was approved by the union management? ~2004, before the Teamsters if I remember correctly?
If history is a predictor of the future, the following will happen:
1) The union leadership will sell this agreement.
2) The vocal minority in opposition will be unable to hold union positions, NRFO or check airman positions. If they leave the property, their careers may be threatened.
3) Anyone that disagrees will be labeled "anti-union".
4) You won't find any pilot that voted yes, but the agreement will pass by 70%+.
5) The union will continue to lose leverage for future negotiations and become increasingly irrelevant in regards to collective bargaining.
6) The current union leadership will continue their reign unopposed.
7) Years from now, those in union leadership, SDPs, CC76ers, attack dogs will be those that most likely voted "yes".
My theory is that the company presented the union with litigious "evidence"...this is the best the union can do considering the reality of their past decisions and behavior. This disaster has been in the making for 15+ years, with each and every year the union has had the blessing of the pilot group. I don't know much, but I remember my time at NJA all too well.
If history is a predictor of the future, the following will happen:
1) The union leadership will sell this agreement.
2) The vocal minority in opposition will be unable to hold union positions, NRFO or check airman positions. If they leave the property, their careers may be threatened.
3) Anyone that disagrees will be labeled "anti-union".
4) You won't find any pilot that voted yes, but the agreement will pass by 70%+.
5) The union will continue to lose leverage for future negotiations and become increasingly irrelevant in regards to collective bargaining.
6) The current union leadership will continue their reign unopposed.
7) Years from now, those in union leadership, SDPs, CC76ers, attack dogs will be those that most likely voted "yes".
My theory is that the company presented the union with litigious "evidence"...this is the best the union can do considering the reality of their past decisions and behavior. This disaster has been in the making for 15+ years, with each and every year the union has had the blessing of the pilot group. I don't know much, but I remember my time at NJA all too well.
02-10-2024, 04:42 PM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2022
Posts: 54
When was the last time NJA pilots voted down an agreement that was approved by the union management? ~2004, before the Teamsters if I remember correctly?
If history is a predictor of the future, the following will happen:
1) The union leadership will sell this agreement.
2) The vocal minority in opposition will be unable to hold union positions, NRFO or check airman positions. If they leave the property, their careers may be threatened.
3) Anyone that disagrees will be labeled "anti-union".
4) You won't find any pilot that voted yes, but the agreement will pass by 70%+.
5) The union will continue to lose leverage for future negotiations and become increasingly irrelevant in regards to collective bargaining.
6) The current union leadership will continue their reign unopposed.
7) Years from now, those in union leadership, SDPs, CC76ers, attack dogs will be those that most likely voted "yes".
My theory is that the company presented the union with litigious "evidence"...this is the best the union can do considering the reality of their past decisions and behavior. This disaster has been in the making for 15+ years, with each and every year the union has had the blessing of the pilot group. I don't know much, but I remember my time at NJA all too well.
If history is a predictor of the future, the following will happen:
1) The union leadership will sell this agreement.
2) The vocal minority in opposition will be unable to hold union positions, NRFO or check airman positions. If they leave the property, their careers may be threatened.
3) Anyone that disagrees will be labeled "anti-union".
4) You won't find any pilot that voted yes, but the agreement will pass by 70%+.
5) The union will continue to lose leverage for future negotiations and become increasingly irrelevant in regards to collective bargaining.
6) The current union leadership will continue their reign unopposed.
7) Years from now, those in union leadership, SDPs, CC76ers, attack dogs will be those that most likely voted "yes".
My theory is that the company presented the union with litigious "evidence"...this is the best the union can do considering the reality of their past decisions and behavior. This disaster has been in the making for 15+ years, with each and every year the union has had the blessing of the pilot group. I don't know much, but I remember my time at NJA all too well.
02-10-2024, 09:04 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 209
over 50% pay raise in 6 years doesn’t sound too too bad. Must be in the details. Especially you guys are actually not in contract negotiations till 2029? Any more details on the AIP?
02-11-2024, 04:34 AM
#29
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,723
That's good advice whether you've been at Netjets for years or you're thinking of applying.
An extra can of gasoline was just tossed into this dumpster fire.
02-11-2024, 04:35 AM
#30
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: The Jet
Posts: 1,065
When was the last time NJA pilots voted down an agreement that was approved by the union management? ~2004, before the Teamsters if I remember correctly?
If history is a predictor of the future, the following will happen:
1) The union leadership will sell this agreement.
2) The vocal minority in opposition will be unable to hold union positions, NRFO or check airman positions. If they leave the property, their careers may be threatened.
3) Anyone that disagrees will be labeled "anti-union".
4) You won't find any pilot that voted yes, but the agreement will pass by 70%+.
5) The union will continue to lose leverage for future negotiations and become increasingly irrelevant in regards to collective bargaining.
6) The current union leadership will continue their reign unopposed.
7) Years from now, those in union leadership, SDPs, CC76ers, attack dogs will be those that most likely voted "yes".
My theory is that the company presented the union with litigious "evidence"...this is the best the union can do considering the reality of their past decisions and behavior. This disaster has been in the making for 15+ years, with each and every year the union has had the blessing of the pilot group. I don't know much, but I remember my time at NJA all too well.
If history is a predictor of the future, the following will happen:
1) The union leadership will sell this agreement.
2) The vocal minority in opposition will be unable to hold union positions, NRFO or check airman positions. If they leave the property, their careers may be threatened.
3) Anyone that disagrees will be labeled "anti-union".
4) You won't find any pilot that voted yes, but the agreement will pass by 70%+.
5) The union will continue to lose leverage for future negotiations and become increasingly irrelevant in regards to collective bargaining.
6) The current union leadership will continue their reign unopposed.
7) Years from now, those in union leadership, SDPs, CC76ers, attack dogs will be those that most likely voted "yes".
My theory is that the company presented the union with litigious "evidence"...this is the best the union can do considering the reality of their past decisions and behavior. This disaster has been in the making for 15+ years, with each and every year the union has had the blessing of the pilot group. I don't know much, but I remember my time at NJA all too well.
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