STzBack

Who absorbed the loss at the airlines when the flying went away 2 years ago? did they get their min guarantee? Nope. Min Guarantee was gone, cut, pilots were forced to go on unpaid leave. Their real money was gone. You still had you base pay. What's happening to the A320 captains at B6 right now when the company is asking them to take LOA's for January? The soft money goes away for us, the real money goes away for them too when things go bad.

I understand your blind support for the union leadership, old methods worked back then and old style people still believe in old methods, still think in 2024 that all out wars to solve issues. I would not be surprised if the negotiating team never countered the last offer, never negotiated points, I wouldnt be surprised if ML did act as his typical self and would have walked out of the room, acting unhinged and unprofessional, along the lines of his insulting MB responses everytime someone asks a pertinent question. I wouldn't be surprised if with a counter offer and certain simple changes requests we would have not reached a better deal where we would have made an increase of about 28%-30% year over year and why not FDP at zero or at 5. Of course the company must have added stuff they knew they would have to let go with a counter offer. But The union lead negotiator has zero intention of negotiating, he wants to fight a war until his demands are met unconditionally, making sure some are not achievable.
He doesnt have many years left and will not suffer any consequences in 2029 if things go sour for us.

The union's leadership's job is to represent us, not to think for us, not make life choices for us, we are free, adults, we decide. The union's job is to negotiate for us, brings us a deal, we like it or not. we choose. If we don't like the deal, they do the job we pay a lot for, they go renegotiate. But, have you seen the salary paid to the union leadership? added to a CC76-CC72 base pay, pretty cosy to make a half mil' per year and not have to actually fly, I understand why certain people get all up in arms when talks of a recall are rempant.
What does ML have on PL and P? why have they not fired the failing negotiator they hired? They must know by now that he won't bring them a deal. Where's PL been? Why isn't he involved in the negotiating? It's his legacy as a union president that's at play.

Did you look at the growth at EJM in the past years? did you notice the percentage of EJM planes doing our "sell offs"? did you notice the alignement of uniforms? the redesign of interiors to look alike NJA planes? Do you know that people can actually buy into programs that actually give the company choices to put them on NJA tails or EJM tails depending on availability?
This group has it's limits, nobody is irreplacable, this company is replacable, BH can restart something whenever they're done with the disgruntle ones. As we have made it a personal affair, attacking individuals in their private lives, in their neighborhood and keep on insulting them publicly, do you really think that BH is going to play with a toxic group forever? Don't you think they have options and will have drastic options when needed, when this contract ends, to deal with the thorn that we could become? For sure I can be ramatizing, reading into something that maybe isn't there. But is it? Is a giant financial corporation like BH really going to get played by a small group of pilots making north of $200K/year? Do we really believe that? Are we so disconnected from reality that we actually believe that? Most of us have never had a real 8-5 job, 6 days per week, 4 weeks per months with 2 weeks vacations per year, we have no idea what real life is but we think we can demand anything. We want airlines compensations but we don't want to be sent home at 65.... We demand things and we have forgotten what negotiating means and that Santa doesn't exist and he won't bring us all and every toy we have asked for.

The sad thing is that none of the last 15 pilots I have talked to agree with what's happening and shared that the friends they talk have the same concerns and questions. It's starting to really feel like a hijack by a minority who has no intention to let this group decide for itself, and obviously no intention to counter-offer and negotiate. Pretty sad.

STzBack

This was a proper offer. It's not being renegotiated and not worked on to be put in the correct language to be brought to a vote because some people do not want us to vote. We are not "under regional pay" and believew me, you work much less than at the regional, stop being that delisuonal. stop acting like someone who cannot read the fine prints and knows life at the regionals in 2023. Why is PSA coming with a new magival money offer every 15 days? Because if they were making those 100s of thousands year 1 would they still be there? Why are FO refusing to upgrade to Captain at the regionals? Come on man, inform yourself.

Do you realize that when people have interested in negotiating, counter offer, make a deal, these bullet points can be made into language. Do you really believe that the company submitted a bullet point proposal as a "contract offer", come on, are you naive? this was an offer. We should have counter offered, drop some, modify some, don't you really think they have a bit more leeway as to how high they can go? The job of the negotiating commitee is to take these bullet points, send their adult response (instead of "no to everything" without counter points) and the language for a contract that we can vote on would take 48 hours to be written if needed.

STzBack

Bro, irrelevant question and one that I will not answer anyway.

Shenzi105

I'm not great at reading interpreting all of the nuances of our contract, but it feels that our scope is pretty solid as far as using EJM or any other operator for sub-contracts, they are limited to 15% of our flying in times of growth. I can live with that.

MinRest

You are conflating a lot of components here that is worth correcting. Those that went on reduced min guarantees did it VOLUNTARILY. Min guarantee was not gone, and cut, and pilots were not forced to go on unpaid leave. At least not at the majors. Base pay is min guarantee at the airlines. I can tell you that A320 CAs as B6 are doing just fine and will get min guarantee and more if there is flying for it. The LOAs are voluntary and it is pretty typical for the early months of the new year. AS is doing the same thing. They asked for it in JAN, you could take it if you wanted to. My line has 82 hours in it for Jan and I will get paid that or better. Honestly, your entire statement is basically incorrect.

Sewertubeflyer

you are so uneducated and clearly don’t fly the line to realize how hard we work so you definitely are management scum.

ProfessionalSN

I’ve been with NetJets for about two years and don’t agree with anything you’ve said. The stats of the message board have been posted before. Maybe 90% don’t post but closer to %90 do read through It. Polls have been taken and no one wants that embarrassment of a potential offer. It looks like you came to this public forum to spread propaganda and the result is mostly you arguing with minrest and others that don’t even work here.

Pervis

Prof, it's called FUD.

Shenzi105

He's a bit all over the place and seem to like steering sh!!t but he does have some interesting points that more people share. Where's the embarrassement in having to reject a proposal through vote? It doesn't cost us anything to vote, it's a vote, yes or no. Some like you may think it's an embarrasing proposal, some like me could be 50/50 (I need a few things changed and I am pretty sure they can be changed) others will like it a lot. I am also starting to wonder why there's refusal to bring this last one (with a few negotiated changes) to a vote.

I have confidence our team is convinced we do have good negotiating credit left and will get a better deal before 2025. Because I hope we are not going to waste potential small improvement the way we've had them in IBI and get nothing until 2026. That would be a lot of money thrown away over the next 3 years.

PointBreak

It’s pretty simple. Putting something to a vote ( even when the survey data says it will fail ) come with risks. If you need me to explain more than that PM me. But I think you get the idea.