Last Last Best Final or Last Best Final Final
12-14-2023, 02:35 PM
#152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2023
Posts: 297
What a statement. Exactly what I have thought for years, and yet say it and the hornet nest starts buzzing in anger. I always felt that it was a better job at the $27,108 I started at than it has become with the current much higher scales. Problem is that every IBB has gotten more money at the cost of QOL going down the tubes, as well as management's treatment of its pilots there. And when the pilots tell their NC "we want ____ in the next contract" and their NC goes to their default answer of "what are you willing to give up?"....inexcusable. And those extended contracts for the bribe, er, signing bonus....well, we see what good that has done. They are in the best market ever and have zero leverage. Sad, but true. They work a far harder job and make well under what the industry dictates. I'd like to see them do better.
Like you said, Santulli wasn't an angel, but he shot straight and the company was his baby. The last 3 CEOs, just not the same.
Like you said, Santulli wasn't an angel, but he shot straight and the company was his baby. The last 3 CEOs, just not the same.
The idea that the current managment doesn't have the same passion as RTS I don't agree with. I actually believe that they have more passion than RTS to make sure that this company maintains upright at low tides.
I miss RTS but I also appreciate the financial security the current management has gotten us.
12-14-2023, 03:03 PM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Just a pilot
Posts: 762
Weird some people have been screaming about section 20 for years.....
The idea that the current managment doesn't have the same passion as RTS I don't agree with. I actually believe that they have more passion than RTS to make sure that this company maintains upright at low tides.
I miss RTS but I also appreciate the financial security the current management has gotten us.
The idea that the current managment doesn't have the same passion as RTS I don't agree with. I actually believe that they have more passion than RTS to make sure that this company maintains upright at low tides.
I miss RTS but I also appreciate the financial security the current management has gotten us.
12-15-2023, 12:50 PM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2023
Posts: 297
In fairness, pretty much every aviation company was losing lots money at that time. Remember how much RTS sold his helicopter operation of in what, 3 years after he got the big elbow from Buffet....right around the amount of debt NJA was in. Had he been left alone, I think he would have been able to the same if not better as those who followed. And without firing 495 pilots, taking the nonunion employees benefits, and making the job suck for the next 10 years.
The job sucked afterwards due to managment thankfully they did their slash and burn and were thrown out on their ass.
This managment actually has real world experience especially with our ops.
12-15-2023, 01:24 PM
#155
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2023
Posts: 57
AJ's email is definitely targeitng the reasonable ones and the younger ones. Definitely not anything that will be accepted by the angry old seniors who are not interested in negotiations. Definitely not what the Pyromaniac wants since his only intersst is to keep the fight going at al costs, especially at the cost of a better deal for the next 3-6 years for the group.
The union knows very well this deal will pass any vote without a problem, that's why they are refusing to submit it. When pilots will have to choose with a much better income for thew next 3-6 years or nothing - knowing that we cannot do anything drastic until 6 years from now when we go into Section 6, it's pretty stupid to refuse to have a much better income. Only those who are already very comfortable and want to destroy the company's business, our jobs, are interested in the fight. Those who are bitter that they could never make it, make it back, to a legacy airline. So now, they are waging their Don Quixote style war at the cost of the rest of the group. Pretty lame. Pretty sad.
This deal they offered us is not bad at all, negotiate a threshold for the number of NRFO flights OEM pilots can do, scope it; drop the OT to 11.5 day one (negotiate reducing to 11 in the future), make OT quarters again; Leave Day 1 overtime as it is now, get off your high horses, stop acting like a pyro, package this and negotiate, I am sure they would take it. And if you're lazy and weant to prove a point, keep it as it is and submit it to a vote, you very well know what the results will be, outside of your angry useful idiots on the MB.
The union knows very well this deal will pass any vote without a problem, that's why they are refusing to submit it. When pilots will have to choose with a much better income for thew next 3-6 years or nothing - knowing that we cannot do anything drastic until 6 years from now when we go into Section 6, it's pretty stupid to refuse to have a much better income. Only those who are already very comfortable and want to destroy the company's business, our jobs, are interested in the fight. Those who are bitter that they could never make it, make it back, to a legacy airline. So now, they are waging their Don Quixote style war at the cost of the rest of the group. Pretty lame. Pretty sad.
This deal they offered us is not bad at all, negotiate a threshold for the number of NRFO flights OEM pilots can do, scope it; drop the OT to 11.5 day one (negotiate reducing to 11 in the future), make OT quarters again; Leave Day 1 overtime as it is now, get off your high horses, stop acting like a pyro, package this and negotiate, I am sure they would take it. And if you're lazy and weant to prove a point, keep it as it is and submit it to a vote, you very well know what the results will be, outside of your angry useful idiots on the MB.
12-15-2023, 04:47 PM
#157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Just a pilot
Posts: 762
Furloughed is fired. You just "get to come back when they want you". Tell the wives and kids of the 495 thta they were not fired, "just furloughed" and see how that goes over. It was rotten.
12-15-2023, 06:18 PM
#158
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2023
Posts: 57
the fact that you keep on using the juvenile "company man" attribute shows your intellectual level and understanding of life "union propaganda man". So gulible. The last email from MP is such a nice politician comm', for exemple doesnt take into account the FDP. what? you think FDP is going to dry up, disappear? economical melt down? "Mainline" pilots as they keep calling them (real term is Legacy) do have to work to make money. By just flying our 7/7, with easy average fdp of 20 hrs per tour, at $200, you'd come within $20K of those numbers MP listed.
The fact that the union is refusing to bring this to a vote shows the union knows very well where the majority of the group stands. This is supposed to be a democracy where the voters actually pay to vote but the directorate is refusing to accept the will of the majority. And, if the vote would come to a NO, then all the power to PL and his pyromaniac, so why being so scared of a vote?
Choosing a better financial situation for the last 3-6 years of the contract's life while we can do nothing apart from the lame loser actions that you guys are calling for on the MB (call fatigue as much as possible, AOG planes for nothing, don't extend - great for the EJM pilots getting more flying thanks to us) or choosing to make zero extra for the remaining 6 years, because there's nothing we can do legally until we are in Section 6 in 2029. You prefer being poorer and looking like a loser until then or provide to your family and be in a better situation if things go wrong in the country/globally?
But yes, keep avoiding the vote because you know very well what the outcome will be. "company man", lol, such a childish comment.
You know very well this cannot keep on going on. Demographics have changed, pilots here are starting their careers, others are having their first children, the union cannot keep on blocking people from voting and rule things from the very senior pilots POV. This union management, despite all ther politician narrative they keep on sending us, often as dishonest as company management, - crying "it's them, them bad, them very bad, it's not us, it's them" is losing credibility among a larger segment of the group. They need to start delivering as they did in the past 10 years. Things have changed, this is a new world, we are not in the 2000's anymore.
I understand though that the union management's best strategy is to chase pilots away, especially the younger ones, by refusing any deal until it's almost too late in order to achieve a utopian mass exodus.
In the mean time, EJM is enjoying the selloffs generated by the VED boycott. Great strategy.
The fact that the union is refusing to bring this to a vote shows the union knows very well where the majority of the group stands. This is supposed to be a democracy where the voters actually pay to vote but the directorate is refusing to accept the will of the majority. And, if the vote would come to a NO, then all the power to PL and his pyromaniac, so why being so scared of a vote?
Choosing a better financial situation for the last 3-6 years of the contract's life while we can do nothing apart from the lame loser actions that you guys are calling for on the MB (call fatigue as much as possible, AOG planes for nothing, don't extend - great for the EJM pilots getting more flying thanks to us) or choosing to make zero extra for the remaining 6 years, because there's nothing we can do legally until we are in Section 6 in 2029. You prefer being poorer and looking like a loser until then or provide to your family and be in a better situation if things go wrong in the country/globally?
But yes, keep avoiding the vote because you know very well what the outcome will be. "company man", lol, such a childish comment.
You know very well this cannot keep on going on. Demographics have changed, pilots here are starting their careers, others are having their first children, the union cannot keep on blocking people from voting and rule things from the very senior pilots POV. This union management, despite all ther politician narrative they keep on sending us, often as dishonest as company management, - crying "it's them, them bad, them very bad, it's not us, it's them" is losing credibility among a larger segment of the group. They need to start delivering as they did in the past 10 years. Things have changed, this is a new world, we are not in the 2000's anymore.
I understand though that the union management's best strategy is to chase pilots away, especially the younger ones, by refusing any deal until it's almost too late in order to achieve a utopian mass exodus.
In the mean time, EJM is enjoying the selloffs generated by the VED boycott. Great strategy.
12-16-2023, 03:38 AM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 273
the fact that you keep on using the juvenile "company man" attribute shows your intellectual level and understanding of life "union propaganda man". So gulible. The last email from MP is such a nice politician comm', for exemple doesnt take into account the FDP. what? you think FDP is going to dry up, disappear? economical melt down? "Mainline" pilots as they keep calling them (real term is Legacy) do have to work to make money. By just flying our 7/7, with easy average fdp of 20 hrs per tour, at $200, you'd come within $20K of those numbers MP listed.
The fact that the union is refusing to bring this to a vote shows the union knows very well where the majority of the group stands. This is supposed to be a democracy where the voters actually pay to vote but the directorate is refusing to accept the will of the majority. And, if the vote would come to a NO, then all the power to PL and his pyromaniac, so why being so scared of a vote?
Choosing a better financial situation for the last 3-6 years of the contract's life while we can do nothing apart from the lame loser actions that you guys are calling for on the MB (call fatigue as much as possible, AOG planes for nothing, don't extend - great for the EJM pilots getting more flying thanks to us) or choosing to make zero extra for the remaining 6 years, because there's nothing we can do legally until we are in Section 6 in 2029. You prefer being poorer and looking like a loser until then or provide to your family and be in a better situation if things go wrong in the country/globally?
But yes, keep avoiding the vote because you know very well what the outcome will be. "company man", lol, such a childish comment.
You know very well this cannot keep on going on. Demographics have changed, pilots here are starting their careers, others are having their first children, the union cannot keep on blocking people from voting and rule things from the very senior pilots POV. This union management, despite all ther politician narrative they keep on sending us, often as dishonest as company management, - crying "it's them, them bad, them very bad, it's not us, it's them" is losing credibility among a larger segment of the group. They need to start delivering as they did in the past 10 years. Things have changed, this is a new world, we are not in the 2000's anymore.
I understand though that the union management's best strategy is to chase pilots away, especially the younger ones, by refusing any deal until it's almost too late in order to achieve a utopian mass exodus.
In the mean time, EJM is enjoying the selloffs generated by the VED boycott. Great strategy.
The fact that the union is refusing to bring this to a vote shows the union knows very well where the majority of the group stands. This is supposed to be a democracy where the voters actually pay to vote but the directorate is refusing to accept the will of the majority. And, if the vote would come to a NO, then all the power to PL and his pyromaniac, so why being so scared of a vote?
Choosing a better financial situation for the last 3-6 years of the contract's life while we can do nothing apart from the lame loser actions that you guys are calling for on the MB (call fatigue as much as possible, AOG planes for nothing, don't extend - great for the EJM pilots getting more flying thanks to us) or choosing to make zero extra for the remaining 6 years, because there's nothing we can do legally until we are in Section 6 in 2029. You prefer being poorer and looking like a loser until then or provide to your family and be in a better situation if things go wrong in the country/globally?
But yes, keep avoiding the vote because you know very well what the outcome will be. "company man", lol, such a childish comment.
You know very well this cannot keep on going on. Demographics have changed, pilots here are starting their careers, others are having their first children, the union cannot keep on blocking people from voting and rule things from the very senior pilots POV. This union management, despite all ther politician narrative they keep on sending us, often as dishonest as company management, - crying "it's them, them bad, them very bad, it's not us, it's them" is losing credibility among a larger segment of the group. They need to start delivering as they did in the past 10 years. Things have changed, this is a new world, we are not in the 2000's anymore.
I understand though that the union management's best strategy is to chase pilots away, especially the younger ones, by refusing any deal until it's almost too late in order to achieve a utopian mass exodus.
In the mean time, EJM is enjoying the selloffs generated by the VED boycott. Great strategy.
12-16-2023, 05:00 AM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 189
What's really sad is someone hiding behind an anonymous name on a public message board touting the same lines out of an infamous book called "confessions......". Some who no doubt post under different names but are really the same management types. Cubicle dwellers who do their masters bidding.
If you were a line pilot, you would have the same ability any member has to communicate directly with union leadership to voice your concerns. If enough of the membership were of a mind like yours, they may well put it to a vote. But I have little doubt people like who who come on in the last months of contentious negotiations with few posts to slam the union are company trolls. Your insults mean nothing. If my opinion of you is an insult for calling you a company man, well that's on you.
If you were a line pilot, you would have the same ability any member has to communicate directly with union leadership to voice your concerns. If enough of the membership were of a mind like yours, they may well put it to a vote. But I have little doubt people like who who come on in the last months of contentious negotiations with few posts to slam the union are company trolls. Your insults mean nothing. If my opinion of you is an insult for calling you a company man, well that's on you.
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