Last Last Best Final or Last Best Final Final
12-04-2023, 07:30 PM
#131
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,723
Can you read stzback? I have my doubts.
8.Section 4
• Eliminate NRFO SDP position.
• Modify NRFO related manuals, eliminate certain NRFOs, recategorize remaining NRFOs into
two groups: Group 1 any crewmember off IOE can complete; and Group 2 both
crewmembers must be NRFO trained and have one year in the fleet.
• A crewmember who completes (i.e., the crewmember must remain available for duty for the
entire NRFO assignment) a NRFO assignment will be guaranteed a Flight Hour Credit per LOA
27‐010. If the crewmember flies during the same duty day and his Flight Hours as described
in 27.2(G) for the duty day exceed the Flight Hour credit, then his Flight Hours calculated as
described in 27.2(G) will be used instead of the Flight Hour credit.
• Company may use OEM pilots or OEM contract pilots for NRFO flights.
Right there tough guy. Black and white.
You'll feel a whole lot different about scope when it's YOUR job on the line.
If EFPP is such a nothingburger, WHY does management want it back so bad?
I'm certainly not rich. Own one home. No airplane. No boat. No kids. No grandkids. No intention of working until 67 let alone 70. Totally supported one FDP rate. Totally support one PIC scale and one SIC scale.
You really think I AM BEING SELFISH for rejecting this turd of an offer? That's rich. News flash sport. You're either a management troll, kneepad wearing stooge, or #jetcamp newbie hoping to make a quick score before heading off to a major leaving the people who BUILT THIS PLACE behind.
This deal will never see a vote as-is and your little fantasy of replacing the E-Board is just that: a fantasy.
8.Section 4
• Eliminate NRFO SDP position.
• Modify NRFO related manuals, eliminate certain NRFOs, recategorize remaining NRFOs into
two groups: Group 1 any crewmember off IOE can complete; and Group 2 both
crewmembers must be NRFO trained and have one year in the fleet.
• A crewmember who completes (i.e., the crewmember must remain available for duty for the
entire NRFO assignment) a NRFO assignment will be guaranteed a Flight Hour Credit per LOA
27‐010. If the crewmember flies during the same duty day and his Flight Hours as described
in 27.2(G) for the duty day exceed the Flight Hour credit, then his Flight Hours calculated as
described in 27.2(G) will be used instead of the Flight Hour credit.
• Company may use OEM pilots or OEM contract pilots for NRFO flights.
Right there tough guy. Black and white.
You'll feel a whole lot different about scope when it's YOUR job on the line.
If EFPP is such a nothingburger, WHY does management want it back so bad?
I'm certainly not rich. Own one home. No airplane. No boat. No kids. No grandkids. No intention of working until 67 let alone 70. Totally supported one FDP rate. Totally support one PIC scale and one SIC scale.
You really think I AM BEING SELFISH for rejecting this turd of an offer? That's rich. News flash sport. You're either a management troll, kneepad wearing stooge, or #jetcamp newbie hoping to make a quick score before heading off to a major leaving the people who BUILT THIS PLACE behind.
This deal will never see a vote as-is and your little fantasy of replacing the E-Board is just that: a fantasy.
12-05-2023, 04:23 PM
#132
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2023
Posts: 57
Company may use OEM/OEM contract pilots for NRFO flights vs..... allowing OEM pilot to routinely fly OUR airplanes".
Extrapolating mucht?
12-05-2023, 10:04 PM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Just a pilot
Posts: 761
You haven't been at NutJets very long, have you? If you have, you would know how many dams have burst over cracks in the dams.
12-06-2023, 01:37 AM
#134
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 45
IRRELEVANT concessions?
Now we KNOW you are a company stooge if not a management pilot.
If you think allowing OEM pilots to routinely fly OUR airplanes is a good idea you have NO concept of scope or how important it is. There's already been one major scope dodge here that cost at least 50 seniority list pilot jobs. You don't want another.
The fact that management is fighting SO HARD to claw back EFPP should tell you all you need to know about its potential value. The negotiating committee has expressed SOME willingness to give it up IF the rest of the package is SPECTACULAR. If you think the company proposal is spectacular, you prove the most famous axiom widely attributed to P. T. Barnum.
The signing bonus....you're telling me that a guy on property 8 days deserves the same bonus as a guy on the property 8 YEARS? Straight-up vote buying. If you want to START everybody's bonus at $15 K and THEN give everybody $150 per month of service (with NO CAP) then I'm good with it. If not, straight up NO for me.
Will we get Delta money (on an apples to apples, per day of work comparison)? No. Will we get major hard limits on duty time and the like? No. Will we get major improvements in airline policy, hotels, and crew food? No. As some have said "this job will always kinda suck." But it's long past time for them to PAY for the suck and they are completely unwilling to do it.
Now we KNOW you are a company stooge if not a management pilot.
If you think allowing OEM pilots to routinely fly OUR airplanes is a good idea you have NO concept of scope or how important it is. There's already been one major scope dodge here that cost at least 50 seniority list pilot jobs. You don't want another.
The fact that management is fighting SO HARD to claw back EFPP should tell you all you need to know about its potential value. The negotiating committee has expressed SOME willingness to give it up IF the rest of the package is SPECTACULAR. If you think the company proposal is spectacular, you prove the most famous axiom widely attributed to P. T. Barnum.
The signing bonus....you're telling me that a guy on property 8 days deserves the same bonus as a guy on the property 8 YEARS? Straight-up vote buying. If you want to START everybody's bonus at $15 K and THEN give everybody $150 per month of service (with NO CAP) then I'm good with it. If not, straight up NO for me.
Will we get Delta money (on an apples to apples, per day of work comparison)? No. Will we get major hard limits on duty time and the like? No. Will we get major improvements in airline policy, hotels, and crew food? No. As some have said "this job will always kinda suck." But it's long past time for them to PAY for the suck and they are completely unwilling to do it.
12-06-2023, 01:52 AM
#135
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 45
Pay attention to GeeWiz kiddies...especially you starry eyed newbies. Once the thrill of polyester has worn off and you spent that bonus, you'll wish you listened.
Of suspicion is how active that STzBack is when he only joined a month ago....right as things got really heated up.
Its not my fight anymore but I'd sure hate to see the guys I know who are still there have to eat it again.
Of suspicion is how active that STzBack is when he only joined a month ago....right as things got really heated up.
Its not my fight anymore but I'd sure hate to see the guys I know who are still there have to eat it again.
There is truth to what new-hires observe and their opinion shouldn't be silenced just because they haven't "paid their dues" into your club. It's a joke how people are called "company stooge" or "mgmt pilot!" when they make a valid point that doesn't perfectly align with the latest union chant.
12-06-2023, 08:14 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 189
"Of suspicion" is how you try to discredit anyone posting relevant information simply because they don't live on the forums like you and your buddies.
There is truth to what new-hires observe and their opinion shouldn't be silenced just because they haven't "paid their dues" into your club. It's a joke how people are called "company stooge" or "mgmt pilot!" when they make a valid point that doesn't perfectly align with the latest union chant.
There is truth to what new-hires observe and their opinion shouldn't be silenced just because they haven't "paid their dues" into your club. It's a joke how people are called "company stooge" or "mgmt pilot!" when they make a valid point that doesn't perfectly align with the latest union chant.
12-06-2023, 03:42 PM
#137
CHILLAX
Joined APC: Dec 2023
Posts: 117
Can you read stzback? I have my doubts.
8.Section 4
• Eliminate NRFO SDP position.
• Modify NRFO related manuals, eliminate certain NRFOs, recategorize remaining NRFOs into
two groups: Group 1 any crewmember off IOE can complete; and Group 2 both
crewmembers must be NRFO trained and have one year in the fleet.
• A crewmember who completes (i.e., the crewmember must remain available for duty for the
entire NRFO assignment) a NRFO assignment will be guaranteed a Flight Hour Credit per LOA
27‐010. If the crewmember flies during the same duty day and his Flight Hours as described
in 27.2(G) for the duty day exceed the Flight Hour credit, then his Flight Hours calculated as
described in 27.2(G) will be used instead of the Flight Hour credit.
• Company may use OEM pilots or OEM contract pilots for NRFO flights.
Right there tough guy. Black and white.
You'll feel a whole lot different about scope when it's YOUR job on the line.
If EFPP is such a nothingburger, WHY does management want it back so bad?
I'm certainly not rich. Own one home. No airplane. No boat. No kids. No grandkids. No intention of working until 67 let alone 70. Totally supported one FDP rate. Totally support one PIC scale and one SIC scale.
You really think I AM BEING SELFISH for rejecting this turd of an offer? That's rich. News flash sport. You're either a management troll, kneepad wearing stooge, or #jetcamp newbie hoping to make a quick score before heading off to a major leaving the people who BUILT THIS PLACE behind.
This deal will never see a vote as-is and your little fantasy of replacing the E-Board is just that: a fantasy.
8.Section 4
• Eliminate NRFO SDP position.
• Modify NRFO related manuals, eliminate certain NRFOs, recategorize remaining NRFOs into
two groups: Group 1 any crewmember off IOE can complete; and Group 2 both
crewmembers must be NRFO trained and have one year in the fleet.
• A crewmember who completes (i.e., the crewmember must remain available for duty for the
entire NRFO assignment) a NRFO assignment will be guaranteed a Flight Hour Credit per LOA
27‐010. If the crewmember flies during the same duty day and his Flight Hours as described
in 27.2(G) for the duty day exceed the Flight Hour credit, then his Flight Hours calculated as
described in 27.2(G) will be used instead of the Flight Hour credit.
• Company may use OEM pilots or OEM contract pilots for NRFO flights.
Right there tough guy. Black and white.
You'll feel a whole lot different about scope when it's YOUR job on the line.
If EFPP is such a nothingburger, WHY does management want it back so bad?
I'm certainly not rich. Own one home. No airplane. No boat. No kids. No grandkids. No intention of working until 67 let alone 70. Totally supported one FDP rate. Totally support one PIC scale and one SIC scale.
You really think I AM BEING SELFISH for rejecting this turd of an offer? That's rich. News flash sport. You're either a management troll, kneepad wearing stooge, or #jetcamp newbie hoping to make a quick score before heading off to a major leaving the people who BUILT THIS PLACE behind.
This deal will never see a vote as-is and your little fantasy of replacing the E-Board is just that: a fantasy.
The EFPP deal, don’t know enough to comment. Maybe someone can expand on this? Regardless, this was a major economic offer with no further extension and now left with nothing because Pedro and his gang deemed it was not good enough. Shame on him and his posse.
12-06-2023, 08:55 PM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Just a pilot
Posts: 761
"Of suspicion" is how you try to discredit anyone posting relevant information simply because they don't live on the forums like you and your buddies.
There is truth to what new-hires observe and their opinion shouldn't be silenced just because they haven't "paid their dues" into your club. It's a joke how people are called "company stooge" or "mgmt pilot!" when they make a valid point that doesn't perfectly align with the latest union chant.
There is truth to what new-hires observe and their opinion shouldn't be silenced just because they haven't "paid their dues" into your club. It's a joke how people are called "company stooge" or "mgmt pilot!" when they make a valid point that doesn't perfectly align with the latest union chant.
12-07-2023, 12:53 AM
#139
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 45
"Live on the forums"....that's rich. I post less than once a week. And its not a matter of paying dues. What it IS, is a matter of having been in professional aviation long enough to have validation in what you have to say. You're like those college professors in their late 20s to early 30s. Know so much about things you have no experience in.
But go ahead, let's hear what your requirement is for validation...?
Your arrogance displayed here is a disgrace to this profession. If anything, THAT should "invalidate" what YOU have to say.
12-07-2023, 06:53 AM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 350
I don’t get the fixation on the NRFO deal. There simply isn’t enough NRFO flights to justify turning down such a pay increase to keep NRFO while it only benefits so little people.
The EFPP deal, don’t know enough to comment. Maybe someone can expand on this? Regardless, this was a major economic offer with no further extension and now left with nothing because Pedro and his gang deemed it was not good enough. Shame on him and his posse.
The EFPP deal, don’t know enough to comment. Maybe someone can expand on this? Regardless, this was a major economic offer with no further extension and now left with nothing because Pedro and his gang deemed it was not good enough. Shame on him and his posse.
"Major economic offer" does not mean it should be released for a ratification vote. Until the EBoard believes they have the best offer in hand there will not be a vote. Like it or not that is how things work. It is my opinion that giving concessions in this environment is tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime.
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