Nortonious

I agree, question is will sanity prevail and will we as a nation do it ourselves before an implosion? Hope so, but if not keep those EBR's handy.

FighterHayabusa

It's not a free ride for the reasons I laid out - they do pay federal income taxes, just not directly. Do you think that FICA taxes and sales taxes could be regressive without a progressive federal tax? Wouldn't a Big Mac be cheaper if McDonald's didn't have to pay corporate tax? Now, one could argue that it would be better - the federal government would be more accountable - if the working poor realized how much they were indeed paying, but to say that they are paying nothing is ridiculous. There was a study that showed all Americans pay roughly the same amount of overall tax when the dust finally settles - I'll try to find it again and post it.

jungle

Nobody is saying they are paying nothing, the fact is that redistribution is called that for a reason. Why can't we all pay the same rate? Why are half of us taxed at one level and not the other.
The truth is that there is a near 50/50 split at the political level and the tax system is the primary cause. If I didn't have to pay Federal taxes, why would I care what they were or if they increased to unbearable levels?
You know the answer.

EvilGN

looks like there is a 4th topic that should never be argued....religion, sports, politics, and now taxes.....but what the hey

a flat tax may fix most of the fiscal monetary issues for the govt, but IMO its still unfair. the family of 4 making 30k a year probably lives in a home that is 90-100k (using the 3x yearly income rule). So that would allow the dude making 1M a year to live in a 3M house. The dude making 30k pays 3k, so that reduces his mortgage to 80-90k give or take, and millionaire is forced to live in a $2.7M house. Not to mention the yearly requirement to LIVE ie food, healthcare, education etc, its harder for the 30k guy to make ends meet. The millionaire will never go without healthcare, education, milk, booze :P etc. So with a flat income tax, should we make the millionaire pay a proportionately higher amount of money for food? Even if he eats at the most expensive eatery in NYC everyday, he is still doing better than the lower income family.

Funny thing is, I am the furthest person I know from calling my self a bleeding heart liberal, I firmly believe in survival of the fittest when it comes to capitalism. But as an ECON major (who remembers little from college) I have never seen a reason for not having a progressive income tax, while at the same time, flat taxes exists, and even regressive ones. Its the balance between all of them that would make things FAIR. But in our current system which NEEDS to be changed, that rich man still finds ways (thru spending money) to keep from paying his FAIR share

ryan1234

I'm very interested to see this study. Do you remember what the context was?

FighterHayabusa

Let me spell the logic out for you then - a road is something that is built with a regressive tax - like a state sales tax or a gasoline tax - where the people who pay the highest as a percentage of their income for the tax are the working poor.

jungle

I find that interesting. If I make a million dollars and you make 10,000 and we are both taxed at 10%, who pays more?

The sad part is that not only are the higher earners paying more for the exact same benefits, but they contribute far more to the economy and the government.

jungle

There are arguments and there are displays of facts. Not any room for facts in some of those topics. Some can't tolerate the facts in the others.

FighterHayabusa

Are you really trying to say the 50/50 split is due to those that pay tax and those that don't? Cause if so, you are seriously underestimating the amount of New England suburbanite liberals in the top 50, and definitely leaving out some white Southern Baptist conservatives that live in single wides and are firmly in the bottom 50. Check again, sir - the highest incomes are in the blue states, and redistribution is mostly from the blue states to the red states.

jungle

Bottom line is that you think some should be excused from the obligations they have in fact created. Either we all support it together or we all pick another system.
Climb up on that wall and carry a rifle or stay home and cry about the cost.
We are all in this together.
Fair would actually mean dividing the tax bill equally among all of us, and I dare say most of us, the vast majority, could not pay it under any reasonable measure.