ComeFlyWithMe

No, this isn't in the wrong section. I'm actually referring to pay and wages here.

How many of you think the piloting profession is becoming like the next bus-driver occupation? Here's what I mean by that:

Bus drivers, both public and motorcoach, are underpaid low to lower-middle income earners, many times from the inner city. In the case of school-bus drivers, they may not be from the inner city, but generally the job pays crap no matter what.

So are pilots becoming like bus drivers? They say flying these days is becoming like riding a bus, and customer service certainly follows the bus model (aka it is nonexistant). Could a pilot's pay someday become more in line with that of a bus driver?

georgetg

I guess you haven't seen bus-driver salaries lately...
I bet they out-earn most regionals...

Actually they do:

Local government $17.10
Interurban and rural bus transportation $15.86
Urban transit systems $13.49

That's not chock to chock, that duty pay!

Cheers
George

Dreamer

I think you make an interesting observation, but I'm not sure how valid your premise is. I think the main difference is that Pilots are members of a destinct professtion...So although some pilots mya be making the same as bus drivers, one cannot forget about the Cargo and Majors: where some pilots can make between $150,000-$225,000(approx) a year. I've often wondered if all I'm really striving to become is a glorified bus driver. However, although some aspects may be some same, I feel there is a rash difference in the end...And I have a feeling this will remain true--that is--untill we start seeing flying cars.

Always,

Dreamer

EvilGN

what about Semi drivers vs Cargo flyers? Come on now, its apples and oranges all the way....what do you think the highest paid bus driver makes? Maybe 6 figures driving celebrities around????

and there are certainly more 200k+ pilots out there than equally payed bus drivers...

but if you want to feel like you are on par with what a bus driver does...have at it. I personally love that my office is (will be) a cockpit and not a desk, and certainly better than a drivers seat on the nation's highways.

ZapBrannigan

<cough>SJS<cough>

detpilot

Hardly... number one, he flies a Saab, number 2, I feel the same way and I'm flying piston aircraft!

I'd rather sit right seat in a Cirrus for the rest of my life than drive a bus as a career...

SkyHigh

I think the origional point was that pilots were headed towards being bus drivers.

The answer to that question is defiantly YES. If you were to take a look at the pay and working conditions for airline pilots it has been on a long downward slide.

Public status has been dulling. In the heyday pilots were the astronauts of their time. Like airborne engineers and scientists they bravely took on perils of the sky. Today aviation has been tamed. Glass cockpits and automation have taken all the challenge out of the job. In six months someone can go from zero to hero.

High School kids are even being courted to be regional airline pilots. There is talk on these forums of regional airline cadet programs to take recent high school grads and make them into regional airline pilots.

A few corners of aviation are able to hold on to higher wages and old style working conditions but those times are fading fast. In 20 years pilots will wish they could be urban union wage paid bus drivers.

SkyHigh

III Corps

You're not dreaming too big and you are confusing what you do with who you are.

Also, IF you see yourself as a bus driver, you are one. But if you make it to the airlines or with a fractional, you will find that flying the airplane is only one part of the career or in the limited vision you paint.. the job

III Corps

Have you flown highly automated aircraft and have you had any emergencies abnormals.

Yes, automation has taken a lot of the mundane work out of the cockpit but I note you list the C-150 in your avatar. Nice airplane that is easy to fly but not easy to fly precisely and very well.

The fact that you can go from zero to the cockpit in a few months means nothing. UPT is 12 months and in that time you go from zip hours to supersonic and less than 300hrs. Are you a polished professional experienced aviator? A long way from it but you have the basic skills.

You imply all the automation makes the job little more than an airborne computer game. That is a false impression because while a human can screw up but for a real complex, fast moving, befuddling screw up, you need a computer. Go to the NASA website and pull up some ASRS reports on problems with automation. THEN come back and tell us that flying today is little more than pushing buttons.

SkyHigh

Yes I have modern automated glass experience. I flew for a regional and a jet LCC. I also have a few years of steam gauge single pilot multi engine IFR time.

Once you get down the routine and memorize the action items the rest is read and do. The majority of the time two pilots sit with arms folded telling old stories while the FMS does all the work.

There is no argument that the flying today is much easier then back when pilots were flying timed non-precision approaches in 707's or hand flying a DC-3 across the nation sharing a single attitude indicator. No one does much fuel calculations anymore. Dispatch, maintenance control and ATC are just a finger push away in case a real decision needs to me made.

Modern jets have nothing to feather and a short list of buttons to push and levers to pull. Pilots today can watch the flight progress on a little TV and let the auto throttle adjust the rate of decent.

As a result of the new age of automation airlines are able to hire kids with 500 hours or less to do the same job as a guy nearly three times his age who flies a slightly bigger plane for the majors. Times are not getting better for pilots. The next step is to hire kids right out of high school. Airlines will not pay for experience that they don't need anymore. They just keep lowering the minimums.

I would compare airline flying to bus driving but the bus driver has to stay awake and steer.

SkyHigh