ATP Centerline Thrust Hours?

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12-06-2015, 10:45 AM

#31

USMCFLYR

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Joined APC: Mar 2008

Position: FAA 'Flight Check'

Posts: 13,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

As I read it, it said the airspeeds were determined at a given AOA, but it seems to be missing the airspeeds, although "airspeed" is mentioned several times? Is this something they left out on purpose? The point of a Vmc is to assign a minimum airspeed, the talk about AOA doesn't seem as definitive. Is it 10, 12 or 14? Published Vmc airspeed is the FAA requirement, not multiple AOA.

JNB - Yes - spoken of in different terms than you average GA aircraft manual. Fighter aircraft aren't flown in a relation to a speed when maneuvering flight - for all of the reasons that the FAA now has begun to emphasis AoA in GA aircraft in maneuvering flight.

Everything that the paragraph is trying to say about VMC is being spelled out in terms relevant to military tactical aircraft. The FAA just hasn't quite caught up administratively in my opinion.

PerfInit - no red line in the HUD

and it changes based on all the factors that affect the AoA/airspeed relationship to begin with which as you pointed out - is finally being recognized by the FAA. The military was ahead of its' time in this regard.

The 8900.1 is woefully outdated and the last revision I saw - though it has been a while since I looked so I'm sure you both can correct me - but it doesn't even address all models of the Hornet specifically - which is important because this distinction we are making only came about with the later models of the Legacy Hornet.

12-06-2015, 10:50 AM

#32

Adlerdriver

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Joined APC: Jul 2007

Position: 767 Captain

Posts: 3,988

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfInit

Certification standards require a Vmc airspeed be published in the AFM and indicated by a red radial line on the airspeed indicator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Published Vmc airspeed is the FAA requirement, not multiple AOA.

Since when does the FAA get involved in certification of military fighters? No USAF aircraft I ever flew had a red radial line on the airspeed indicator or a published Vmc.

Isn't any published airspeed, Vmc or otherwise going to be an educated guess (usually based on max GW or other worse case)? Seems to me AOA will always be a more exact method of determining limits because varying conditions like GW, stores and environmentals would be accounted for every time.

12-06-2015, 12:37 PM

#33

PerfInit

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Joined APC: Oct 2008

Position: JAFO- First Observer

Posts: 997

Taken way out of context. FAA does not get involved in certification of military aircraft. However, FAA Order 8900.1 is a policy document that is used by FAA ASI's and industry. FAA policy in 8900.1, Volume 5 says that if flight time in a military multiengine aircraft (such as F-14, F-18 etc) is being used to credit for a FAA Pilot certifcate based on military competency, and the aircraft does not have a published Vmc airspeed, then that aircraft's multiengine flight time is considered to be "centerline thrust" for pilot certification purposes.

As it has been previously stated, the 8900.1 may be out of date with regard to includng (or missing) the latest military aircraft variants.