Cookenbauer

I'm a Navy guy that is planning to separate after my initial winging commitment..and I'll probably end up with a non-flying gig for my last year.

I already have my ATP/CFI tickets in hand. So while I'm on my final non-flying tour, I plan on finding a local FBO and hopefully look to part-time instruct on the weekends. Honestly, they wouldn't even have to pay me...just need a way to stay current to my airline apps never reach limbo or deadweight status until I can transition on to the SELRES/ANG side of things.

I see it as a win win. Hopefully I can find a taker.

Hobbit64

Be very careful with the bold sentence. If that makes it out, the locals (potential employers/students/co-workers) will take great exception to that philosophy.

tunes

tread very lightly....that is exactly the problem with the industry......

E2CMaster

I think for saying that, Hal is going to come around the corner and give you a wedgie Cook.

ForeverFO

In the military, the loyalty extends up and down the ranks. We are immensely loyal to our squadron commander, because generally they will back you to the hilt if your actions and decisions are honorable.

And it goes without saying that we would take a bullet for our peers, and move mountains to help them.

We still do that - back our friends, be there for them. But your future supervisor has no parallel to your current commander group. Basically, you have a Chief Pilot in the 121 world, and you can go years without ever seeing the guy. He does NOT have your back. He has his own (and the company's) back. And would hang you out to dry in a heartbeat. Not to say there aren't good Chief's out there - there are, but the relationship is NOT comparable to a military unit.

Your union brothers and sisters have your back in your relationship to the company, and even to the public. In case of "accident or incident", one of the first things you do is contact the union, not your chief pilot.

I'll give a very quick example - CA buddy was accused of being inebriated when he showed up for his trip by a FAM, an Air Marshal. The Air Marshal did not have the authority to detain him. CA takes off into the terminal and barely avoids two airport cops running to the gate.

His first step - call the union. They tell him "Proceed IMMEDIATELY to the nearest hospital and get a blood test; keep the paperwork. We'll meet you." With union help, advice, support, he proved his innocence. What would the company, the Chief, have done? Prior incidents along these lines would indicate that they'd throw him under the bus.

I'm doing a bad job explaining this, I think. Maybe someone else more articulate can help. Basically, it's all business to the company. They can and will do anything necessary to increase profit. They do NOT have your best interests in mind... You are a commodity, easily replaceable. They have the bottom $$ in mind, and will unilaterally create work rules and changes that are deleterious and unsafe.

Without union muscle and support, we'd be flying unsafe aircraft in a grossly fatigued state, at a minimum. You might think "No company would risk catastrophe; it's bad for the bottom line." Yes, they would. It happens all the time. They are NOT the pilots... we are.

The union gives us the power to say "No. No, I will not take this aircraft into Guatemala City without a functioning EGPWS."

Hope this helps a bit. Good luck in your career.

Rusty17

I know a lot of us on this thread are talking about CFI time flying at your local FBO... are you using this time or even just standard fun in the local airport pattern in a C-152 or C-172 as PIC on Apps? I can tell you that the 2012 C-172 with the Garmin 1000 and autopilot at my local club is a hell of a lot more sophisticated than the Tweet and all of my buds who were Tweet FAIPs are certainly counting their 1000 IP hours in that towards their PIC.

In other words... does 1300 PIC in a C-130/C-17/C-5 plus 200 hrs PIC in your bug smasher at the local FBO equal 1500 hrs PIC for Airline App purposes? I know they care a hell of a lot more about your total military/combat time than they do about your time flying up and down the beach in a C-172 on the weekend, but don't know what the standard is for those out there who have already been through this Airline App process. You certainly don't want to get caught "speeding" if the industry standard is that single engine PIC isn't worth anything.

kme9418

It's all "good" time. But more is better, heavier/more complex is better, doing it as employment is better. If you meet the mins, check the box and don't feel bad about it. When you get to the interview, you've already made it past the filter. Then it's all on you to show them you are the right fit.

Hobbit64

In a perfect world, you would want an employee base that supports and wants the company to be successful. i.e. If I work hard, the company does well and I do better. Rising tide lifts all boats mentality. That aint the airline world I witnessed. When times are good the company wants more, so do the pilots. When times are rough the company wants more and the pilots don't want to give when the company wouldn't bend when they were clearing duckets and/or the management peeps are making huge salaries while the company lost duckets.

The perfect interview answer, and a perfect world scenario, is: Both the Management and Labor force should meet on common ground in a position where both sides profit from their shared goal of a successful business. That aint the airline world I witnessed.

It takes one scheduler calling you and trying to coerce/threaten you into extending you duty day to turn you sour. Well that scheduler is calling you because another pilot just called in sick on July 3rd. The scheduler has been lied to and caught short enough times to become calloused, which in turn ... well you get the idea. Kind of like your sister unit sneaking into your orderly room and mopping the floor with red gatorade from the fridge so you put a live squirrel in their CDR's office and the next thing you know an alternatively life-styled male stripper is dancing in front of him at a dining in with 300+ people in attendance. Bottom line, the company had been operating at 80-90% crew levels because hiring more people costs money, so they just pay overtime to the existing pilots. Cold hard dollar logic, gets the same from the pilot group after the second family event is missed for their bottom line. You expect a certain level of sacrifice in the military. In the civilian world they can expect some, but the well runs dry faster.

Some Real life stories.

1. First flight out (0545) has to get out on time or every other flight that plane flies will be late. Imperative. Crew does a preflight for said flight and finds a hole in a fan blade. Not a nick, chip etc. A HOLE through it. OK, easy. Call OPs, get maint. They are delayed. Base manager walks out a yells etc pressuring them to go. Yes, W T F !? Manager was getting pressure from HQ to end the late first flights.

2. FO gets a call to report for a Functional Check Flt and shows up as fast as he can. Gotta get this bird back in the mix to make $$$. Rapidly goes through the report evolution and walks to the designated gate-No Plane. Calls scheduling, on hold- "Oh Yeah, they're working on it. It'll be there soon" It showed up 3 hours later.

3. FO gets a call for a late/gotta get it going international flight. FO races through KATL to the international terminal to the gate with burning shins. No Plane. Awkward pause, looks around, no one. Find a gate agent and find out it was cancelled and the plane tugged away. Scheduling couldn't call me an hour ago while fighting to get there, after they had me moving towards a 'dropped ball'?!? During my prior life I spent a good deal of time sitting QRF for a TIC, etc - real life stuff. Call comes down, I'm moving out with a purpose towards whatever is threatening 'Joe' on the ground with an angry heart. No place for that dedication when the company pulls that.

4. There was an aircraft with a bad APU that was deferred (delayed fix so it can continue to make $$-Not moving No $$). With no APU there is no power for A/C. Sitting on black asphalt in July, the cabin temp goes to 36*C+ . Crew refuses it. Walking to the next bird, we find out we were the third to do so. We board the elderly, infants, infirm etc on a regular basis and that cabin condition is No Bueno. Heck, a paying customer deserves a good product. I hated being embarrised by the nominal standard for success in the industry. Who wants someones Grammy sitting there for 30 min's in a 36*C environment?! Maint. gives it to the next crew flying in to that base. They refuse it. Rinse Lather Repeat until the CRTs upfront over heat and the company has a big bill to replace them. Seriously, they tried to get 5+ crews to take it. It was at a base with Mechanics there. It was too easy to do the right thing and fix it there, or repo it and fix the APU. With no union, you're told to fly it or walk. ( In the military, 'OK this sux but it comes with the territory-get some bottled water.' N/A for an 80 y/o woman)

5. FO reports for a Functional Check Flt. He looks at the write up and fix and doesn't feel comfortable. He wouldn't fly it and was fired. He fought it and got back on the line, made CAPT and then took over the union. Not me, but I definitely supported him getting elected. Awesome leader. He even set up a committee of pilots who volunteered their time to work with schedulers to help generate the next month's schedules to maximize airline&pilot profit within the crew rest guide lines.

I was very fortunate with my base manager. If you saw him, he talked to you like you were a friend. He wanted to make sure you were doing well. He set goals, we achieved and he got us a Kuerig coffee maker before they were mainstream. A simple team building exercise that worked and cost, what, a couple hundred dollars. If you screwed up and were defiant, bad day. If you were right and someone came after you, no worries. 'Fly your trip and I'll take care of it.' 'If you screw up, tell me so I can call them before they call me so we can get in front of it.' Extremely simple methodology that just works. I guess at the macro level it falls apart. Dunno.


Non-Union story. Part 135 OPs. The schedule was Two weeks on/Two weeks off. Pilot has finished a two week hitch and the next pilot is delayed coming on. Chief Pilot says that the pilot needs to extend. Someone says, 'she can't her parents are flying in today and she's spending a week with them.' "She WILL fly until I say so or she will be demoted to a smaller POS aircraft and moved to the worst base there is."

Long post. Sorry, but I figured that you should see enough scenarios to realize that the unfortunate state of the industry is there for a reason. I doubt it will change.

Take Care

Hobbit

Hobbit64

Slightly off topic and I am way out of interview practice but I would use it as a great interview convo topic for showing who YOU are.

-Getting back to your roots.
-I Love to fly and this is a great way to share it with others
-Witnessing aviation change/improve other people
-Teaching more than just Lift/Weight/Thrust/Drag -> Self confidence
-Helping someone in achieving their life's dream when they delayed it for their family
-Motivating teenagers towards learning STEM and showing them that they can learn and excel at something just beyond their previous expectations.
-

Remember, after the quals, they are wondering: "Can I sit for four days at a time with this person?"

rickair7777

Short answer, yes it's all PIC per the FAA.

Longer answer...Airline Apps will have you break down time by aircraft as well as differentiate pilot PIC from instructor PIC, so they will see what's what and turbine pilot time is better than light piston ASEL.

But you need to understand what a given employer wants in the way of recency...

Might be 200 hours in 12 months, period. ASEL CFI (or even $100 hamburger time) counts. I think most US companies accept any flight time.

Might be professional (ie paid) pilot time, in which case CFI still counts I would think.

Some might require turbine time only.

In any case professional turbine crew time is most competitive, but that doesn't mean other time won't work in a pinch.

Read the fine print on their websites.