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Old 12-20-2013, 09:13 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Indy
I wrote my Senators and Representative. Have you?

Phone calls will be made next week. Let's melt their phones!
You won't have to. There is already a mass exodus underway at the O-3 level. This will only serve to accelerate that. In two years they're not going to know what hit them.
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:46 PM
  #72  
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I agree on exodus pending...

In 97/98 when retention was awful, I was one of the lucky captains picked from each USAFE squadron to go talk to Gen Ryan (later CSAF) and Gen Short about WHY guys were bailing. I pointed out a host of irritants, but one that I remember was always having to share a hotel room on every TDY both in Europe and stateside (insert Eagle driver jokes here...). We were also told how valuable we were, how much our training was worth, etc etc but when it came to finding an extra 30 or 40 bucks a night for an officer to have a room to himself on a 3 week TDY, there wasn't enough money. I told the generals "You always say its never about the money, but you guys sure count YOURS pretty close..." This latest cut to retirements is just another example of priorities. You pat us on the head, but the first time you need to make a cut WE are the place you go.

To this I say what I said back then: Noted.

Now--my concern for many of you posters here is when that wave does hit, the Air Force will cry "needs of the Air Force" and STOP LOSS may again rear its ugly head. The last guys who decide to try to leave may be the ones who do not get to go. I hate the idea of a peace-time implementation of SL, but from what I hear the assignment wonks will not answer direct questions on the issue when they are visiting squadrons. I remember the days of 16 straight guys dropping papers instead of doing an ALO tour, and I suspect those days are coming back.
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:06 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Indy
I wrote my Senators and Representative. Have you?

Phone calls will be made next week. Let's melt their phones!
MOAA has letters all ready-to-go:

Legislative Action Center
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:49 AM
  #74  
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I wrote my congressman, there are lots of web sites already linked which let you basically enter a zip code, your name/address/phone/email and it does everything for you. I highly suggest others do the same.

In regard to retention, my squadron has 13 separations/retirements right now and not a single eligible pilot has taken the bonus. I directly confronted AFPC (roadshow) about stop loss and they got angry and stepped around the question like Jay Carney does on ObamaCare. When our "leadership" gets the chance to speak with the media about our problems, they make up BS political CRAP about how fighter pilots are bored instead of addressing real issues.

Without getting too specific I believe my personal set of facts probably ring true with many other officers:
1) I have a choice.
2) The AF hasn't figured out I have a choice and continues to think they have all the cards.
3) I do not respect the President, Congress, and the American people who put them there.
4) I will do what is in my own best interests.

The retirement vote is really the cherry on top of a long list of reasons to leave. To me the well is poisoned and I'll have nothing to do with the military, civil service, or any type of defense contractor for the rest of my life given any reasonable choice. If a 9/11 type event happens then sure I'll stay in, but only because of fact #4.
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Old 12-21-2013, 05:10 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Han Solo
I wrote my congressman, there are lots of web sites already linked which let you basically enter a zip code, your name/address/phone/email and it does everything for you. I highly suggest others do the same.

In regard to retention, my squadron has 13 separations/retirements right now and not a single eligible pilot has taken the bonus. I directly confronted AFPC (roadshow) about stop loss and they got angry and stepped around the question like Jay Carney does on ObamaCare. When our "leadership" gets the chance to speak with the media about our problems, they make up BS political CRAP about how fighter pilots are bored instead of addressing real issues.

Without getting too specific I believe my personal set of facts probably ring true with many other officers:
1) I have a choice.
2) The AF hasn't figured out I have a choice and continues to think they have all the cards.
3) I do not respect the President, Congress, and the American people who put them there.
4) I will do what is in my own best interests.

The retirement vote is really the cherry on top of a long list of reasons to leave. To me the well is poisoned and I'll have nothing to do with the military, civil service, or any type of defense contractor for the rest of my life given any reasonable choice. If a 9/11 type event happens then sure I'll stay in, but only because of fact #4.
5) All the PC crap these days.
6) The constant flow of new duties for pilots (aka, doing someone else's job)
7) The complete inefficiency of anything the military/government does
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Old 12-21-2013, 05:40 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Albief15
I agree on exodus pending...

In 97/98 when retention was awful, I was one of the lucky captains picked from each USAFE squadron to go talk to Gen Ryan (later CSAF) and Gen Short about WHY guys were bailing. I pointed out a host of irritants, but one that I remember was always having to share a hotel room on every TDY both in Europe and stateside (insert Eagle driver jokes here...). We were also told how valuable we were, how much our training was worth, etc etc but when it came to finding an extra 30 or 40 bucks a night for an officer to have a room to himself on a 3 week TDY, there wasn't enough money. I told the generals "You always say its never about the money, but you guys sure count YOURS pretty close..." This latest cut to retirements is just another example of priorities. You pat us on the head, but the first time you need to make a cut WE are the place you go.

To this I say what I said back then: Noted.

Now--my concern for many of you posters here is when that wave does hit, the Air Force will cry "needs of the Air Force" and STOP LOSS may again rear its ugly head. The last guys who decide to try to leave may be the ones who do not get to go. I hate the idea of a peace-time implementation of SL, but from what I hear the assignment wonks will not answer direct questions on the issue when they are visiting squadrons. I remember the days of 16 straight guys dropping papers instead of doing an ALO tour, and I suspect those days are coming back.
Good points. I retired earlier this year and can say that there has been a lot of discontent for a couple years now, at least in the single seat world. I hated it so much that I retired the first day I was eligible...without a job. I ended up at a major quickly and know that there are at least 15 guys in my former FS alone who are looking to do the same. Recently our very best pilot got hired and is bailing at 12 years to go to a major. I have personally been contacted by 4 patch wearers looking for recommendations and help in the transition. These are the guys who used to stay for the long haul.

Problem is that none of the leadership seems to be acknowledging that there's a problem. We had guys turning down assignments, including school slots, in order to leave instead. With the hiring picking up this will exacerbate the problem. This most recent attack on retirement benefits is one more straw on the camel's back for those guys.
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Old 12-21-2013, 05:43 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Albief15
I remember the days of 16 straight guys dropping papers instead of doing an ALO tour, and I suspect those days are coming back.
It's already started. Just over a year ago, I was working in the MAAP cell at one of the lovely undisclosed locations. The O-4 in charge of our little section was about to go past his 365 because they couldn't get his replacement there. He was told they've had 8 people, 7 day opt the assignment!

This next one is total bar talk rumor from an AD guy rushing the squadron. He said that the first round of assignments had 10 dudes 7 day opt an aggressor assignment to Eielson. Sounds like the second round was even uglier...

A guy we just got off AD was the 2nd (of 3 as far as we know) to 7 day opt this particular 365 FLYING assignment.
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:31 AM
  #78  
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OT: This bonus is a joke. To the outsider it sounds like a lot but the pilots all know that as soon as you sign it they've got you by the testicles. I'd be worried about the next nonflying 365 to Djibouti the next day.
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:14 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Han Solo
I wrote my congressman, there are lots of web sites already linked which let you basically enter a zip code, your name/address/phone/email and it does everything for you. I highly suggest others do the same.

In regard to retention, my squadron has 13 separations/retirements right now and not a single eligible pilot has taken the bonus. I directly confronted AFPC (roadshow) about stop loss and they got angry and stepped around the question like Jay Carney does on ObamaCare. When our "leadership" gets the chance to speak with the media about our problems, they make up BS political CRAP about how fighter pilots are bored instead of addressing real issues.

Without getting too specific I believe my personal set of facts probably ring true with many other officers:
1) I have a choice.
2) The AF hasn't figured out I have a choice and continues to think they have all the cards.
3) I do not respect the President, Congress, and the American people who put them there.
4) I will do what is in my own best interests.

The retirement vote is really the cherry on top of a long list of reasons to leave. To me the well is poisoned and I'll have nothing to do with the military, civil service, or any type of defense contractor for the rest of my life given any reasonable choice. If a 9/11 type event happens then sure I'll stay in, but only because of fact #4.
Sorry you feel that way, but it's somewhat understandable I suppose.

I've been around for a while and I figured out some time ago that my service, obligation and oath is to something higher than some butthat CO, malfunctioning organization, president, or congress (it even says so if you read the fine print).

You shoulder the burden and hold the line for the long haul not because of but often in spite of the aforementioned clowns. Even if America has lost it's way (I suspect so, but am not certain) there are still plenty of good folks out there and we have to think about our children and great-grandchildren.

At any given time you might be assigned a pointless mission, to waste resources, to jump through PC hoops, to further some parasitic leader's personal ambitions, etc but even then you're probably freeing up or enabling somebody somewhere to accomplish what really needs to be done or preserving our military capacity for some time in the future when it's REALLY needed.

It's pretty lonely sometimes, although a significant part of America's population appreciates what you do...try not to forget that.

I view the compensation aspect not as the reason I serve, but as an enabler to help take care of my family and ensure I'm not being taken advantage of. I don't expect to get rich off of it, but I don't expect to get poor either.

If your current situation is intolerable possibly consider serving in another capacity (guard, reserve, change airframe, change services, whatever). Don't depend on others to define or bound your service or what contributions you make.
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