Lori Clark

First I’d like to say I’m sorry for your position and I hope you’re able to achieve your desired results so you can finish out your commitment. (Simply because it sounds like that is your preferred route.)

This thread has splintered in several directions and honestly, I wish I was more familiar with men’s waist measurements and what they really mean numerically. But that’s really off-point.

Let’s reel this back in to the initial question. I think it’s important to understand why airlines request a DD214. In my experience, most airlines, if not all, will request a DD214 prior to employment (perhaps not prior to interview or offer but before you arrive for ground school.) The 214 is really the only way for an airline to verify that you were in fact employed by the US Military and that you have actually separated. They cannot request any training or personnel records, so what else do they have to go on other than perhaps pay-stubs or tax returns? A DD214 is much easier.

Airlines may be, or may not be, savvy to the codes – and they may not even pay attention. But they will look at whether or not it was an honorable discharge. As RickAir has stated here, honorable is the default to which an airline will expect. Anything other (General or Dishonorable) will raise questions….questions about the pilot’s character. There are rogue pilots everywhere and an airline doesn’t want them. If your 214 is included with your interview package, then they will ask about your reason for separation. If it states honorable they may not inquire. This is, of course, also dependent on who your interviewer is. Your interviewer may be former military and will be suspicious or curious as to why you didn’t stick it out to retirement. Either way, if the question is posed be honest. Tell them that your waist measurement didn’t fit the parameters required.
What will happen is this, the interviewer will then give a quick visual assessment to your ‘overall’ fitness appearance (we can’t help it – it’s normal human behavior) and most likely come to the conclusion that you got a bum rap. No matter if the interviewer is former military or not – human behavior is to sympathize….IF we’re allowed to come to our own conclusions. If the interviewer is ex-military they will certainly see the ludicrousness of the situation (as many of you have stated here) and if the interviewer is civilian they will be perplexed by the rule and conclude it is ludicrous. This doesn’t take away from the fact that you have solid piloting skills and your training is a known quantity to the airlines. That is valuable to them.

Frankly, I think this is a non-event – only to the subject of what the airlines will think. That is, unless the airline with which you are interviewing has a policy against those with anything other than an honorable discharge. Which is impossible for us to speculate upon unless we have inside knowledge of hiring policies for each and every airline. But I have my doubts that such a policy exists.

Good luck to you!

RunFast

GasNGo,

You're in a tough situation that I don't agree with (most have done a good job analyzing that thus far). It seems like you're taking all the appropriate steps to prove your desire and aim to remain an AD officer. I hope they work out. If not, as I'm sure Lori and others who's business it is to provide excellent interview prep would tell you, do not go into an interview with a bad attitude about your previous employer. I don't think you would. Remember: Problem/Action/Solution (what you learned). In an interview, it stung to be let go for that reason, especially because you loved to serve (blah, blah), that you hold no grudge but it's time to move on even if it's earlier than planned but you're damn glad to be in an interview.

If this is the only thing against you (no DUI's, arrests, etc) you should have nothing to worry about. It's easily explainable (a few written letters from commanders and others who've served with you couldn't hurt) even to the civilian HR department.

zondaracer

If you really have any doubt that you will get anything other than an honorable discharge, I would go see a JAG. I never saw an officer get kicked out, but I saw a lot of Airmen. I was XO when we processed a handful. Airman A was facing a general discharge until Airman B told her that she got a JAG and advised her colleague to get one too. Airman A and B both got JAGs and both got honorable discharges. It was a load of crap in this case, but it worked for them.

Deuce130

I'd like to reiterate a previous poster's advice...lipo or some other form of plastic surgery. Don't see why it wouldn't work, especially since you're close anyway. I'm sure a doc would do it for you, especially with your career on the line.

viper548

I failed the PT test in Aug and still made me deploy. On my next PT test I sucked in my gut as best I could and passed. I was considering lipo, but since I passed, I have another 6 months to try and get to a more comfortable waist measurement.

zondaracer

Or you could try what the Miss USA contestants do, wrap their fatty areas with saran wrap with some baby oil underneath and go running.

AIRLIFTR

Dude. Bad idea. That's major surgery. People die on the table getting lipo done all the time. Perfectly healthy, then dead.

Somethimgs wrong when the PT test is forcing folks under the knife.

dtfl

The AFI clearly states that a failed PFT WILL NOT keep you from deploying, but can keep you from long term MPA, schools, etc. And it can give you a referral report.

Indy

I'm an AD flying SQ/DO dealing with failures in my own squadron. This thing really sucks for everybody. It needs to go away when we get a new AF Chief of Staff.

As far as OPR/TR concerns: referral performance reports are only required when they come due or upon course completion and the member is on a current failure or past due. As always, CCs may direct an early report, but I haven't seen that due solely to PFT fails.

If you don't mind, here's my advice: I'm sure you have been entered into the HAWK back-to-basics/fitness improvement program. Do it! If you haven't been to see the HAWK dietitian, do it ASAP and follow that program religiously. It should help your progress and, perhaps more importantly, it will will show intent/motivation to comply.

Here's the standard AF guideline (only slight variations permitted by CCs): 1st/2nd PFT failure= LOC. 3rd failure = LOR. 4th consecutive or 4 in a 2-yr period drives an automatic discharge board. Your CC will have to write a retention package. Bottom line- Give him as much ammo as possible to justify your retention.

It's too early to tell how many will get retained. The first wave of 4th failures under the new program are going to boards now.

Of course, an LOR will keep you from meeting a promotion board regardless of seperation decisions. That sucks in it's own right, but if you can show enough effort to get retained, you might avoid getting kicked to the curb!

Good luck.

dtfl

I wouldn't say that is the standard. That is what is allowed per attachment 19 of 36-2905. That might be standard for AD but not the reserves....not yet anyway. The whole reason for the LOCs and LORs are to create a paperwork trail to aide in administratively discharging a person who is not showing progress (ie..doesn't care or can't do it). (and Referral reports could still allow a member to serve until their separation or TIG date). During my conversation with my boss recently (the OG/CC) we discussed this and the general view is the folks showing progression won't have letters handed to them. Multiple failures however, might force our hand, as they might not be able to perform no matter how hard they try.

The USAFR is still trying to get a handle on this program. Our WG is showing a 34.8% fail rate. Note - units who do NOT use the FAC are showing better stats...but not THAT much better.