ronnie75

Ok, got it. Those examples appear to be bad apples. Agreed. My sentiments came from me as a brand new airline guy trying to work all my mil days on days off. Guess what? As an aviator that gave me 2 days off a month (unit required 8-10 days, airline required 18 days a month), not even factoring in the commute. Did that 2 months. Almost got divorced.

nwaf16dude

Don't agree with that at all. I was a liberal user of mil leave, and I don't think I did anything wrong. My point was that it's wrong to get hired and immediately drop 5 years of orders. I think you ought to fly the line, at least through probation, and then go with the long term option if you have it. But even during probation I dropped at least one three or four day trip per month in order to meet my mil obligation (and be at home a few extra nights). Never produced a complaint from the mil or the company

nwaf16dude

Just don't do anything stupid and you'll be fine, like claiming to bee working over Christmas when the whole unit has christmas off. Yes, it has been done. Or tell the active duty that you have reserve leave (that you don't really hav) and just not show up for work for a couple of weeks. I've got a million of these

Deuce130

Many good opinions on here, but the best advice I have is to simply be honest. If you drop a trip at your airline and call it mil leave, make sure you have the orders to back it up. Easy peasy. It's not hard - work a grounder, an AFTP, a UTA, a manday....whatever, just make sure you were at your mil unit when you said you'd be there and you'll be good to go.

As far as getting hired at an airline and immediately dropping a long term mil order on your company...tough call. I've known many who did. Personally, I worked my probation year, did 10 months of orders, went back to the company for three years, and have now been out for about 18 months on orders. All legit, all above board. In my opinion, if it's legal, protected by USERRA, and you honestly believe it's legit, then go for it. God knows your company won't factor in any notion of "fairness" into the equation. They'll go by the letter of the law, period dot. You should, too.

SaltyDog

know what you mean, did the flying Reserves for 11 years before the desk finally caught up with me. The 8-10 days/month required company drops to maintain family life. That is exactly what USERRA is designed to protect.
Military needs volunteers, civilian employer has to eat it, pay your pension, etc.
It isn't hard to stay out of the limelight. When 'questionable' behaviour flagged by employer we respond.
In cooperation with the ESGR, explain to the employers the demands placed on you for those 8-12 days/month. i.e all the currency requirements with the myriad of qualifications, etc that must meet military needs first. We have shown the extraordinary demands on you when on the BOSS lifts, etc.
Easy for a commander to send a letter to the Chief Pilot that says we appreciate your airline cooperating with us as we take Ronnie75 away from you over the holidays as he is accomplishing these real world mission requirements while you enjoy the holidays.
It really sets a great tone, employer realizes the legitimate duty quickly and recognizes what appeared to be questionable is actually not such a good deal for the employee. Perceptions.
Your an easy one to defend when an employer goes awry.

RunFast

I got hired by a major, got consolidated, then took 15 months MLOA to learn a new jet and do some AEF backfill. Almost none of it counted against my USERRA time. Then I switched AFRC jets again and have been on MLOA for ~9 months. Now I'm going back with not a single person saying "boo." But I have legit orders that I submitted regularly and only about 9 months of the 2+ count against USERRA. Now I plan on dropping 3 of the 18 reserve days per month I have in order to give 8-10 days of availability. My airline likes those days to be on the books before the schedule comes out, and I'm going to play ball. It is a perk that you CAN play one off the other, just don't be a jackball about it.

Lancer

Sorry to post and run, but my points were hit by other articulate users. Dropping trips from time to time to satisfy military requirements is one thing. Promising the world to an employer during the interview, then taking 5 years of orders and dropping mil leave is another. It's a tough battle to make everyone happy with 2 employers, it makes it even tougher for everyone when its being abused.

Jeeterf15

While the USERRA subject is out there...is the 5yr exemption cumulative? If I use my 5yrs on one continuous set of orders (title 32) then return to line flying and also as a traditional guardsman, can a bean counter at my airline count 5 years and one day of mil leave be cause for me to possibly be out of a job?

Jeeterf15

Didn't mean to close the discussion, I was just trying to clarify my research on the USERRA website....I can't read lawyer.

MCFlyer

Thanks again for all the responses, this is exactly what I was looking for. Lots of different perspectives from a variety of experiences. I'm certainly not in the business of causing problems or giving mil guys a bad wrap by exploiting the system. Getting familiar with how it all works is really the goal.

MCFlyer