Linebacker35

Just wondering if any of you military guys have done tail slides? I saw a show on the military channel about them. Said something about they are only done in the F-15 and its only allowed to be done at Edwards. They looked intense, looks like alot of fun.

Nightflyer

The retired mighty T-2C Buckeye, aka the "all weather radial interceptor" does a beautiful tail slide, with the right pilot at the controls. And no, it was not on the list of prohibited maneuvers.

The Air Force writes a big book of what you are allowed to do.

The Navy writes a short list of what you can't.

Anyone else done an inverted spin? The T-2C could!

Slice

Two very useful tactical manuevers!

jungle

I have done tail slides in the F-4J and S, A-4, T-2, and T-34. Some jet engines don't respond well to tailslides and stalling may occur. If the aircraft is ok with it it, it can be fun to go backwards for a little while.

2dotslow

You got that right...not to mention...prohibited. Having flown F-4s for several years, I'd say the "right pilot at the controls" that Nightflyer referenced was really a dumb pilot if he's purposely tail-sliding the beast. FWIW, if you really, really f-up'd a normal spin recovery, you could get the T-37 into an inverted spin. Again...the right = dumb pilot axiom applies.

Nightflyer

Both the tailslide and inverted spin were mandatory maneuvers in the T-2C Out of Control Flight syllabus. You got bonus points on the tailslide if you could pull the tip tank dump handle and observe the tanks dumping up as you slid down.

I knew a guy who once got into an inverted spin in the A-4, while trying to see who could do the slowest loop. He lost and had to eject, as the g forces ripped both the tail and a drop tank off the plane. The cone of death was accurately described in the NATOPS, and rightly so.

What is prohibited in one aircraft, may be required in another.

2dotslow

Interesting name for a syllabus. I guess the old Buckeye must have been a pretty neat machine...ugly though. Except for maybe the test guys at Edwards, the '37 was the only AF plane you could intentionally depart. Ergo, the rest of the training and operational emphasis was on remaining in controlled flight, no matter how intense the maneuvering. That's why I kinda scoffed at the idea of putting a Phantom in a tailslide. The odds of getting into a spin or coupled departure far exceeded the goofiness of attempting the trick. FWIW, in the late 70's I was a 9th AF F-4 flight demonstration pilot. Lots of airshows, lots of maneuvers, no tailslides.

vagabond

What's a tail slide? My instructor didn't do that during my discovery flight, did he? Maybe I'll do it next time I fly.

jungle

2dotslow, Your AF background says everything about your lack of experience with departure from controlled flight. Navy pilots got repeat checkouts in the T-2 and if you didn't depart once in a while during an ACM engagement you really weren't trying hard enough. I do remember flying into a few AF bases that had all the tactical air grounded for 500 and 1/2, the AF does have an outstanding safety record.
I used to teach spins and departures in the T-2, so I've seen more than a few departures. Just because you've never tail slid an F-4 doesn't mean it hasn't been done-I've seen several and all manner of departures in the same A/C without a problem. Scoff away demo pilot, but don't think it can't be done.

Nightflyer

Not a good idea to try this in your Cessna...

In the T-2C Buckeye (the only airplane I have done this in), we called it the "Zero Airspeed Departure", but it is essentially the same thing. You pull the plane straight up into the vertical, and do your best to hold it there until it runs out of steam, and you start to fall backwards, straight down, "on your tail". By dumping the tip tanks, and observing the fuel dumping straight up, you can prove you are falling down, even though the nose is pointing 90 degrees to the horizon. You will also feel a negative G sensation for a few seconds. On the way up, at a certain airspeed, I think it was 60 kts, you can fully deflect the flight controls in any direction, without any response from the plane, because there is not enough wind over the control surfaces. Eventually, the nose pitches down and you pick up enough airspeed to recover control. This is a fairly benign maneuver, and I have never seen a student puke because of it. However, once the spins start, towards the end of the flight, all bets are off. Never thought I'd miss doing 3 spin hops a day.