Fresh graduate to Air Guard?
12-01-2009, 07:19 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 254
Fresh graduate to Air Guard?
Hello all, I'll start off by saying I graduate from college in 3 weeks with a BS degree and an A&P. I've always had the itch for flying, and even though a salary job is at my fingertips, the itch is not going away. I've been exploring as many options as I can to find a way to get to my goal without falling into enormous debt. Started with the 4-year "big school" program, then to local FBO and, most recently, the thought of aircraft ownership while working as A&P. I apologize if you've heard my spiel in other threads.
On to the point, I'm wondering what the Guard may have to offer to someone like me? I would ideally like to fly larger planes: tankers or cargo (C-17, C-130, KC-135 or the KC-X...someday). It's a far shot as of right now, I have zero hours, but everyone did at some point. As far as long term goals, I would love to fly for a fractional or biz jet company.
How valuable is a degree to the Guard, and how does it put me ahead of, say, a kid who joins right out of high school? How long will it take to get in the seat of a plane? Can you make this a full time career? What kind of pay does a pilot in these circumstances receive? Anything on retirement?
I hear it's an amazing experience flying in the military, and in the Guard you get to choose the aircraft and location of your choice. Also, you basically get paid to learn to fly instead of spending tens of thousands of dollars doing it on your own. However, like I said I could go out and start making $50K in the next few months so the benefits would have to be worth the extra effort. Also, it almost seems like my A&P would go to waste and I gotta say, I worked pretty dang hard for that thing over the last two years!
So, to any recruiters or members out there... Sell it to me, I'm all ears.
Also, I've tried registering on the ANG forum twice with no luck? So again, sorry if post seems like it came right off their FAQ.
On to the point, I'm wondering what the Guard may have to offer to someone like me? I would ideally like to fly larger planes: tankers or cargo (C-17, C-130, KC-135 or the KC-X...someday). It's a far shot as of right now, I have zero hours, but everyone did at some point. As far as long term goals, I would love to fly for a fractional or biz jet company.
How valuable is a degree to the Guard, and how does it put me ahead of, say, a kid who joins right out of high school? How long will it take to get in the seat of a plane? Can you make this a full time career? What kind of pay does a pilot in these circumstances receive? Anything on retirement?
I hear it's an amazing experience flying in the military, and in the Guard you get to choose the aircraft and location of your choice. Also, you basically get paid to learn to fly instead of spending tens of thousands of dollars doing it on your own. However, like I said I could go out and start making $50K in the next few months so the benefits would have to be worth the extra effort. Also, it almost seems like my A&P would go to waste and I gotta say, I worked pretty dang hard for that thing over the last two years!
So, to any recruiters or members out there... Sell it to me, I'm all ears.
Also, I've tried registering on the ANG forum twice with no luck? So again, sorry if post seems like it came right off their FAQ.
12-01-2009, 07:38 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Dream within a dream
Posts: 1,306
From what I've heard, take the salaried job and THEN apply to the guard. Applications can take years to get processed and for you to finally get a guard job, so get something stable and then look for the guard gig.
Good luck! I know I'm looking at doing the same thing.
Good luck! I know I'm looking at doing the same thing.
12-01-2009, 07:50 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 254
Thanks for the advice.
So you're telling me it is possible to make a career flying for the guard? It may actually work out better that way because I think I would really enjoy working as an A&P for awhile. And if I get to the point where I can afford a 172, or at minimum achieve my PPL and get some hours logged that would help me out when the Guard job comes around. Not only in flying, but just getting out there and seeing how the real world of aviation works.
So you're telling me it is possible to make a career flying for the guard? It may actually work out better that way because I think I would really enjoy working as an A&P for awhile. And if I get to the point where I can afford a 172, or at minimum achieve my PPL and get some hours logged that would help me out when the Guard job comes around. Not only in flying, but just getting out there and seeing how the real world of aviation works.
12-01-2009, 08:00 PM
#4
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Getting offered a UPT slot without a PPL is all but impossible. That and doing well on the AFOQT and BAT are your first hurdles. Everyone you compete against for a slot will have a degree or will be within 1 year of finishing. You won't have a leg up on anyone. The A+P will make you unique but guard hiring comes down to meeting the min requirements for an interview offer and being liked by the guys who are interviewing you.
12-01-2009, 08:06 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Dream within a dream
Posts: 1,306
Jones14, I can't say for sure because I haven't talked to enough people, but I've heard you can make pretty decent coin flying for the guard. The ANG also has plenty of slots for A&Ps and is much more stable than an airline. You get to serve, receive fine training, and have a great fallback career should your "primary" job go south.
12-01-2009, 08:32 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 254
Getting offered a UPT slot without a PPL is all but impossible. That and doing well on the AFOQT and BAT are your first hurdles. Everyone you compete against for a slot will have a degree or will be within 1 year of finishing. You won't have a leg up on anyone. The A+P will make you unique but guard hiring comes down to meeting the min requirements for an interview offer and being liked by the guys who are interviewing you.
What flight ratings do they expect a candidate to have to be competitive? Just a PPL and IR, or would mild ME time put a little extra twinkle in their eye?
Say I were to go to work in the guard as an A&P. Would there be any way to get initial flight training through the guard while waiting for a slot? An interviewer may possibly lean towards a candidate who is already in the guard?
edit: A quick google revealed there are study guides for the testing. Seems like that should help out a lot.
12-01-2009, 09:10 PM
#7
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Student Pilot
Posts: 849
Hi Jones,
I hope you dont get flamed too bad for your post..
Here are my humble thoughts..
Like I said the whole thing takes years, so choosing between your A&P job and this is not something you need to decide on right now. Even if you were to start applying today, it will be several years until you leave for training. So why don't you focus on getting your A&P career started, and then if this thing still interests you, you can work on getting your application package together and applying for the units while you're working as an A&P. And it doesn't seem like you are aware of this, but you could even keep your A&P career while you fly for the guard. your regular civilian job is protected if you're a guardsman or reservist. so really, if you want both, there is no choice to be made because you can have it all.
as for study material, you can study for the AFOQT with a book that ARCO puts out. you cant study for TBAS.
I hope you dont get flamed too bad for your post..
Here are my humble thoughts..
Hello all, I'll start off by saying I graduate from college in 3 weeks with a BS degree and an A&P. I've always had the itch for flying, and even though a salary job is at my fingertips, the itch is not going away. I've been exploring as many options as I can to find a way to get to my goal without falling into enormous debt. You know, that is really smart thinking. Too many of us have 6 digit debt from school loans. It's a terrible way to start out in life!Started with the 4-year "big school" program, then to local FBO and, most recently, the thought of aircraft ownership while working as A&P. I apologize if you've heard my spiel in other threads.
On to the point, I'm wondering what the Guard may have to offer to someone like me? I would ideally like to fly larger planes: tankers or cargo (C-17, C-130, KC-135 or the KC-X...someday). It's a far shot as of right now, I have zero hours, but everyone did at some point. I understand your point about people having to start somewhere... but if you have zero hours, how do you even know you'll like flying? If I were an interviewer coming across an applicant with zero flying time, I would certainly wonder where is the proof of passion or commitment. And like Slice said, most off the street applicants have at least a PPL. The slots are very competitive, and you want to make yourself as competitive a candidate as possible, right?As far as long term goals, I would love to fly for a fractional or biz jet company.
How valuable is a degree to the Guard,It's required for pilots. and how does it put me ahead of, say, a kid who joins right out of high school? A kid cannot join the guard as a pilot right out of high school.How long will it take to get in the seat of a plane? Could take anywhere from a couple of months (you'd need excellent timing as units only interview once or maaaybe twice a year and extreme luck to achieve this!) to several years to get a pilot slot with a unit... some people land it on their first interview, some people interview for years before finally getting selected. From getting selected to the start of training could take as short as 6 months to as long as 2 years.. and then the entire training from OTS/AMS to seasoning will be 2.5-3 years. So yeah, that's basically a lot of years.Can you make this a full time career? What kind of pay does a pilot in these circumstances receive? Anything on retirement?
I hear it's an amazing experience flying in the military, and in the Guard you get to choose the aircraft and location of your choice. Also, you basically get paid to learn to fly instead of spending tens of thousands of dollars doing it on your own. However, like I said I could go out and start making $50K in the next few months so the benefits would have to be worth the extra effort. I'm not really sure what benefits you are talking about here... the benefits of serving your country? the benefits of being an air force pilot? I have to be honest, I think the "benefits" are really self-explanatory. I would bet what little money I have that 0% of military pilots ever thought to themselves, "hmm, I could maybe go for the air force pilot thing, but I just don't know if it's worth the effort because my current job pays me 50k... hmm." (insert hand juggling motion.) The getting hired process alone is too difficult of a task if your heart is not completely sold on it.Also, it almost seems like my A&P would go to waste and I gotta say, I worked pretty dang hard for that thing over the last two years!
So, to any recruiters or members out there... Sell it to me, I'm all ears.
Also, I've tried registering on the ANG forum twice with no luck? So again, sorry if post seems like it came right off their FAQ.
On to the point, I'm wondering what the Guard may have to offer to someone like me? I would ideally like to fly larger planes: tankers or cargo (C-17, C-130, KC-135 or the KC-X...someday). It's a far shot as of right now, I have zero hours, but everyone did at some point. I understand your point about people having to start somewhere... but if you have zero hours, how do you even know you'll like flying? If I were an interviewer coming across an applicant with zero flying time, I would certainly wonder where is the proof of passion or commitment. And like Slice said, most off the street applicants have at least a PPL. The slots are very competitive, and you want to make yourself as competitive a candidate as possible, right?As far as long term goals, I would love to fly for a fractional or biz jet company.
How valuable is a degree to the Guard,It's required for pilots. and how does it put me ahead of, say, a kid who joins right out of high school? A kid cannot join the guard as a pilot right out of high school.How long will it take to get in the seat of a plane? Could take anywhere from a couple of months (you'd need excellent timing as units only interview once or maaaybe twice a year and extreme luck to achieve this!) to several years to get a pilot slot with a unit... some people land it on their first interview, some people interview for years before finally getting selected. From getting selected to the start of training could take as short as 6 months to as long as 2 years.. and then the entire training from OTS/AMS to seasoning will be 2.5-3 years. So yeah, that's basically a lot of years.Can you make this a full time career? What kind of pay does a pilot in these circumstances receive? Anything on retirement?
I hear it's an amazing experience flying in the military, and in the Guard you get to choose the aircraft and location of your choice. Also, you basically get paid to learn to fly instead of spending tens of thousands of dollars doing it on your own. However, like I said I could go out and start making $50K in the next few months so the benefits would have to be worth the extra effort. I'm not really sure what benefits you are talking about here... the benefits of serving your country? the benefits of being an air force pilot? I have to be honest, I think the "benefits" are really self-explanatory. I would bet what little money I have that 0% of military pilots ever thought to themselves, "hmm, I could maybe go for the air force pilot thing, but I just don't know if it's worth the effort because my current job pays me 50k... hmm." (insert hand juggling motion.) The getting hired process alone is too difficult of a task if your heart is not completely sold on it.Also, it almost seems like my A&P would go to waste and I gotta say, I worked pretty dang hard for that thing over the last two years!
So, to any recruiters or members out there... Sell it to me, I'm all ears.
Also, I've tried registering on the ANG forum twice with no luck? So again, sorry if post seems like it came right off their FAQ.
as for study material, you can study for the AFOQT with a book that ARCO puts out. you cant study for TBAS.
12-01-2009, 09:29 PM
#8
Hire me
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 406
I don't want to derail the thread, but this is a topic that interests me. I'm currently a sophomore in college . . . how soon should I start talking to people, applying, and taking tests? Any recommended timeline to minimize the waiting time between graduation and getting a slot?
Jones14, I can't say for sure because I haven't talked to enough people, but I've heard you can make pretty decent coin flying for the guard. The ANG also has plenty of slots for A&Ps and is much more stable than an airline. You get to serve, receive fine training, and have a great fallback career should your "primary" job go south.
Jones14, I can't say for sure because I haven't talked to enough people, but I've heard you can make pretty decent coin flying for the guard. The ANG also has plenty of slots for A&Ps and is much more stable than an airline. You get to serve, receive fine training, and have a great fallback career should your "primary" job go south.
I was in training a month from my graduation date.
Moral of the story, it's never too soon.
12-02-2009, 08:42 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 254
kalyx522 - Don't feel bashful putting me in my place! I need that kind of information, and I like hearing how it really is in comparison to what some recruiter may tell me down at the local office.
As far as flying goes, I have zero logged hours. I've been flying a handful of times with a RJ pilot friend who has his CFI also. I understand that flying a 172 around is a lot different than training to fly military grade a/c but I've always enjoyed my time in the air immensely. I feel that I have a pretty strong passion, and I have since I was very young. I see old friends that knew me as a child or old classmates and they ask "So, are you flying yet." It's like wow, how did you even know it was an interest of mine? I will say that as of now there is no proof of commitment, but my plan is to own my own trainer. There's a lot of money wrapped up in ownership, and I'll have to think on my feet. That to me is thinking outside the box, when I compare myself to other pilots I know that are my age. I don't want to sound like I have my panties in a twist or anything, but I've been hard at the thought of flying for years.
Also, I don't want to sound like money is the only reason I would take this route, but we all know it's important. Maybe "benefits" was the wrong choice of words. Perks maybe? I know very little about the military and what comes along with it. I've heard about free housing, insurance, bonus cash etc and that is what I was referring to. Honestly, flying for the AF seems head and shoulders above flying for the airlines and there's no easy way to get into a cockpit, so I'm just trying to wrap my mind around where a career in guard flying may potentially place me financially and what type of lifestyle to expect.
Like I said, I value these opinions and if I get flamed a little it's probably good for me. I just felt a little justification was in order.
edit:This section gave me some hope, because of the bit by the recruiter after Question 2.
As far as flying goes, I have zero logged hours. I've been flying a handful of times with a RJ pilot friend who has his CFI also. I understand that flying a 172 around is a lot different than training to fly military grade a/c but I've always enjoyed my time in the air immensely. I feel that I have a pretty strong passion, and I have since I was very young. I see old friends that knew me as a child or old classmates and they ask "So, are you flying yet." It's like wow, how did you even know it was an interest of mine? I will say that as of now there is no proof of commitment, but my plan is to own my own trainer. There's a lot of money wrapped up in ownership, and I'll have to think on my feet. That to me is thinking outside the box, when I compare myself to other pilots I know that are my age. I don't want to sound like I have my panties in a twist or anything, but I've been hard at the thought of flying for years.
Also, I don't want to sound like money is the only reason I would take this route, but we all know it's important. Maybe "benefits" was the wrong choice of words. Perks maybe? I know very little about the military and what comes along with it. I've heard about free housing, insurance, bonus cash etc and that is what I was referring to. Honestly, flying for the AF seems head and shoulders above flying for the airlines and there's no easy way to get into a cockpit, so I'm just trying to wrap my mind around where a career in guard flying may potentially place me financially and what type of lifestyle to expect.
Like I said, I value these opinions and if I get flamed a little it's probably good for me. I just felt a little justification was in order.
edit:This section gave me some hope, because of the bit by the recruiter after Question 2.
12-03-2009, 02:16 AM
#10
China Visa Applicant
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Midfield downwind
Posts: 1,930
You get to choose which units you apply to.
They get to choose if they want to hire you and send you to pilot training.
Big difference.
So, if you are offered employment by multiple units, I suppose you could say that you get to choose the aircraft and location...but chances of getting hired by one unit are pretty low, much less multiple units. It's very, very competitive.
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