letsfly

My apologies for a new thread with a similar topic to some other threads, but I didn't find the exact situation or answer I am looking for.

I am a Southwest poolie currently on active duty with a ADSC of 7 Jun 09. I am trying to nail my exit from the Air Force so I am without a job for as little time as possible (make the most money). Here are my assumptions:

1. I can ask for a seperation date anywhere from 7 Jun 09 to Nov 09 and will probably get whatever I ask for past 7 Jun due to the manning in the C-17.

2. I won't get a Southwest training date until late '09 if I am lucky.

3. It is better (make more money) to have a later seperation date and use your terminal leave cause you will make more money in the long run (you will get paid base pay +BAH+BAS vs. selling leave for only base pay).

4. I don't want to unavailable to Southwest even a day later than the June date I told them just in case a training slot becomes available.

My current plan is to take my ADSC ( 7 Jun 09) add my available leave (75 days) and ask for a seperation date of Aug 22. This way if they ask me to fill a June training slot I can take my terminal leave and if not I can continue on active duty getting paid until 22 Aug and then sell back all my leave.

This is my plan without any real knowledge of what I am talking about. I will take any advice anyone can give me on this. Thanks in advance!

My plan so far is to take my ADSC (7 Jun 09

Nigel Tufnel

I think you have it figured out. The downside of making decisions like this is that you can only make them with the info you have today. Knowing when that SWA class date is would make it easy, but I agree with your decision on making yourself MOST available to your new job at the expense of getting the MOST pay at your old job. There's an old saying amongst fighter guys on long deployments trying to avoid flying with the main body ..."you can't fly a jet both ways unless you fly a jet there". Sleep easy man.

angry tanker

take the vacation time off. it is a good way to decompress and get your life back to normal after the af. well worth it.

under3hrs

Letsfly,

I'm in the same situation. I have an ADSC of 20 April 09 and debated on when I would set my separation date. Eventually, I settled on setting my separation date as soon as possible on the outside chance that classes will start earlier than next fall. I don't ever want to turn down a training date so I am available as soon as Feb 09. If SWA doesn't call, then my wife and I are taking the terminal leave and enjoying a month of vacation to Hawaii and Europe. You'll never have another chance to travel and take the time off. After April, if I am not in a class, then I'll be bumming in the Reserves until I get a training date. Either way, I enjoy what I'm doing and I take advantage of the terminal leave.

This probably seems like the worst time to be getting out of active duty but I am excited and looking forward to the transition.

Good luck!

ugleeual

Let's Fly,
\
Your Sq/CC and Wg/CC don't have to approve your request for 75 days of terminal leave. If manning is short in your MDS they can hold you to a few weeks from separation date and force you to cash out your accrued leave balance. If you were to retire the rules are different... separating gives you very little protection.

I'm currently a Sq/CC (also a UAL pilot on LOA) and have seen it done... so be careful "expecting" any terminal leave... you might want to pre-grease with your Sq/CC and have him stand up for you when the question is brought up. I'm guessing you already have an approved Separation Date? If not, I would make sure you put it in 6 months out... that is the minimum time required by AFPC.

Hope this info helps.

Cheers,

FlyBoyd

Not to get all psych on you but...

I have watched quite a few guys do this through the years and the "closure" is important for you and your family. Take some (maybe not all) of your leave to get things in order for your next life.

Ferd149

DEAD ON!

Plus, you will be available just in case an early class date opens up. Us military guys know about seniority, we just don't understand it. Believe it or not, a class or two in theory can mean a couple of years (if a big slow down, sound familiar? even for SWA?) for upgrade to capt which in theory is major $$$.

I got hired in May (won't tell ya the year) and got out in June. Lady at NWA said my class date would be Sept. My reaction was "cool, I've got the summer off". The guy I interviewed with was a commuter guy who bugged them weekly for an early date. They called him with one and he is almost 200 numbers senior to me. Layoff protection, up grade potential, merger integration, the list goes on.

This is a wierd career, even at SWA. Get out, decompress and bug them for early class dates when you can.

JMHO,
Ferd (new Delta Dude)

KC10 FATboy

When you put in your separation paperwork, you must state on the forms exactly how many days of terminal leave you plan to take. I don't think you can say "SWA didn't offer me a job, so now I'd like to work until my separation date and then sell back all of my leave." My MPF was very specific on this as they wanted to know upfront my plans.

Also, as ugleeual pointed out, your SQ/CC doesn't have to accept your leave request. And in my experience, they didn't accept mine and they didn't except others that were in my squadron. Definitely get with your Sq/CC and find out exactly what he/she is willing to support.

The minimum to notify AFPC of your separation is 6 months. When I separated, McGuire's MPF was slow to get my paperwork to AFPC. Even though I filed 6 months before my chosen separation date, AFPC denied my paperwork. I had to hoot and hollar at my Sq/CC before I was "allowed" to separated. And even then, I had to get a waiver from AFPC .... which, was finally approved 2 weeks before my requested separation date. That in turn, put myself and my unit in an ackward situation because nobody knew if I was staying or going. It was a real pain in the a$$. And since I was already commited to an airline, I was biting my nails that AFPC was in fact going to let me separate.

-Fatty

letsfly

Thanks for all the info, this was a true help. My 6 month point will be in Jan, but I'll be putting my paperwork in on Monday since I am 7 day opting out of orders.

Fatty and ugleeual, that a good point - I 'll make sure my Sq/CC is on board with my plans to take leave. I am in pretty good with him, but I guess you never know down the road how things will be so I better get this all hashed out now. It is just a bummer since my job as a ADO/evaluator is pretty damn easy and I don't mind going into work, but I guess if you have to say up front the terminal leave you are taking I guess I will have to do that. Southwest NOT calling me for a training date before July/August is probably the best odds in Vegas by far, but I guess you never know.

Flyboyd, Ferd, under3, having said this above I think I will take your advice and take some time off! With a reserve job lined up pretty well for a seamless transition form active duty I think I will take your advice and just use at least a month of terminal to just relax.

Thanks everyone for your advice. Anyone know the max number of leave days you can sell back?

Tweetdrvr

I think it is 60 days max leave to sell back in your entire career, and the number carries over from AD to ARC.

Once past 60, you can sell back leave if it was earned supporting a contingency operation. So, if you take a 90 day rotation with your reserve unit, the 7.5 days you would earn could be sold. Best to always try to get orders cut so they say leave earned to be taken at the end, so a 90 day order should be cut for 97 days. Then the ultimate financial play would be to ensure the last day of the operation was in the early part of the month in a tax free zone, so your leave would also be tax free money.

For ANG/AFRC what the rule should say is you can sell leave earned in support of a contingency and it will not count for your career cumlative 60 day total. As busy as we are, this would only make sense. That way you could sell your school house leaves from Little Rock, Altus, et. al., if you so chose without worrying about your 60 day total.

I tried to not sell back any leave until I was above O-3, figuring eventually I would have to sell, and since it only pays at base pay to sell back, I wanted it at the highest paygrade possible. Unfortunately this backfired, as a finance clerk did not check voice mail or follow written instructions in the pre email days, and I lost my last 14 days as an O-3. I did not find out until the pay showed up, and once the check was cut, there was no buying it back.

You can get the guard bum a job, but once you learn to work the system like a bum, you always think like one.