nwaf16dude

Back in 97/98 when the airlines where hiring like crazy, a bunch of guys figured out that the only way to get out of a bonus commitment was to get passed over for promotion. Quite a few wrote letters to the promotion board asking not to be promoted. Back then you didn't meet a major's board until the 11 year point. Probably not possible now since guys are meeting the major's board so much earlier.

Mox Nix

Promotion pass-over rules were revised shortly after that. At the time you were talking about, there was a separation bonus (think severance pay) for being twice-deferred and then being separated under the law. The separation bonus existed because it was considered a non-voluntary separation. After the Air Staff saw the letter-writing thing as gaming the system, they did away with the severance pay if it could be shown that you had asked not to be promoted (or something like that).

BUT: getting passed over STILL creates a mandatory separation date, by law, 6 months after the list is approved...meaning the promotion list of your second look (first APZ board). This mandatory separation date trumps ANY ADSC (bonus included). THE CATCH: you pay back any unused bonus /pro-rated lump sum. (which Shadow seems willing to do).

The other catch: the mandatory separation date isn't really mandatory, because the AF can offer continuation (and most often does, especially for pilots). You don't have to accept continuation...if you decline, you separate 6 months later. The other-other catch: any possible involuntary-separation bonus (yes, that provision is still on the books too) will NOT be paid to you, because it is no longer considered an involuntary separation if you decline a continuation offer.

Ran through this whole gamut a few years ago when passed over for O-5. Thought of taking the out, but I would have owed bonus money back, and I wasn't eligible for involuntary separation pay for the reason just stated.

I don't even know Shadow's promotion zone, but I thought I'd offer this explanation to dovetail onto nwaf16dude's comment.

Hacker15e

Great insight Mox, thanks.

How does the continuation thing work? Is there any action required on the part of the guy who got passed over, or will a letter just make its way to your in-container offering the continuation one day?

If you take the continuation, how long is it for? Long enough to stick around till 20 as a passed-over Major?

Mox Nix

When you get your "sorry we didn't promote you" letter, it should also be accompanied by a letter which explains your continuation options, and a form or maybe an endorsement to return to your MPF if you do accept continuation. I think you have 60 days from notification to accept or decline continuation.

Continuation rules are set per board...normally it's an automatic offer to 20 if you're a major passed over for LtCol. Once you accept continuation, you actually get a DOS established which matches that 20 YOS date. You know how officers have "INDEF" as their DOS in their personnel records or on the old ID cards or leave forms or whatever? (Enlisted all have a DOS based on their enlistment term). Well, if you're passed over and continued, then you actually have a DOS in your records - it will be several years away, but it's there.

Like I said, the continuation rules are set per board. I had thought it was per your primary or 1st APZ board, whatever rules were in effect then. But you're actually eligible for whatever policy is in effect for each APZ board you meet. For this last one which was released back around March, which was about my 4th look, I actually got another continuation offer out to 24. That's the max they can offer for majors, and it's not the norm. I got it because I'm in a critically manned AFSC. Back around 99 or so, they were offering continuation to 24 for all line majors. Now 20 is the norm, and there were only 3 AFSCs that were offered 24.

Another key point: taking continuation doesn't commit you to anything...you're only commited to any ADSCs you actually have (bonus, PCS, formal school, etc). So it was a no-brainer...I accepted the offer to 24 but I can still retire at 20 and probably will. I figured it was best to keep my options open.

webecheck

mox,
excellent gouge, exactly what us non kool aid drinkers need. i had long wondered how that all worked. thx.

Hacker15e

Many thanks, Mox.

shadow95

Mox Nix,

Thanks for the information. Good insight to what some may need to know. I think there should be a book of gouge out there on all the regulations most of us do not know about. We would be able to make better educated decisions.

I am coming up to my primary board for Lt Col next year. Time will tell what happens there. I am still researching the option of paying back the bonus, but right now looking at finding the jobs I can take within the AF which will keep me close to home. The job I have now is really a great; the away from home thing is what gets old. Even so, its all good. Just want to have my cake and eat it too.

RogAir

I never took the bonus, but back in the 90's I offered the USAF a "reverse bonus" -- I would pay them $25,000 for every year I had remaining (2) to get out. You can just imagine the head-spinning that gave them (who does he make the check out to? ) Needless to say, they rejected my offer--you don't let a $6 million asset leave for $50k--you get the $6 million asset to sell his soul for $25k/yr