Adlerdriver

There are a couple of problems I have with this whole issue. None of them deal with the capabilities of women pilots and officers – I don’t think there’s a problem there. However, my viewpoint is anything but politically correct. So be it.

The first thing is, when the change was made, it’s not like we were scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for pilots to fill fighter cockpits. So, did the change to allow women into fighters improve our war fighting capabilities? I say no. Fair? No it’s not, but who ever said creating the best military has to be fair?

We have a 24 aircraft squadron manned at 1.25 pilots per – so 30 pilots. What do we do when Sally the fighter pilot gets pregnant (since it would be un PC to tell her not to). She may not have meant to, but mistakes happen. Or, maybe she’s had enough of long deployments or just feels like it’s time – we’ll never know.
Either way, now we have a hole (STS) in the squadron because Sally is DNIF for the next 9 months plus maternity leave (let’s call it about 1 year). What do we do? Sally’s going to need a TX course due to non-currency when she’s ready to come back. So, we’ve got to spend extra money re-training her. In the mean time, we have to bring another pilot in to fill the opening. What do we do with him once Sally comes back? How effective is Sally going to be as a fighter pilot when she just spent a third of an ops tour not flying? If she struggles and misses out on advancement, follow on ops tours or maybe a weapons school slot because her peers are more proficient because they weren’t pregnant, do we have to entertain IG complaints because she feels slighted?
The bottom line is, this doesn’t do anything to improve our war fighting capabilities. Sally's not as good as she could be and she's taking up a slot from someone who could be meeting their potential. Realistically, I don’t see this happening a lot BUT – if it happens even one time, that’s one time too many, IMO.

The other issue is the inevitable love affair that springs up between men and women pilots. Watching a male and female fighter pilot walk through the Nellis O-club holding hands during a Red Flag was bad enough (saw it with my own two eyes). The last thing you need is #2 and #4 in your 4-ship having a little fling on the side or worse married. It’s just not needed. Really get a soap opera going – what if #3 dumped her a few months ago. Won’t happen? How do you know? If the mission plan calls for limited or no immediate RESCAP in the event of a downed aircraft, is #2 going to leave his/her spouse hanging in a chute? Just don’t schedule them together? BS – what if that’s the best grouping on paper? Now I’ve got to schedule my pilots based on gender and who they’re sleeping with or married to? Maybe they keep their relationship secret. What if they both end up as POWs. As a mission commander, these are not issues I should even have to think of when planning my strike.

Using what’s happened in the recent years of air combat under near perfect air supremacy is unrealistic. A real war with real, daily losses and high threats will bring some of these issues to light. Albie hit on the attitude that real combat can create. I’ve seen it too. The “why not – I may not be around tomorrow anyway” attitude. When it choosing an extra shot of weed or jumping into bed with a cute nurse, that’s potential bad judgment (or good depending on your attitude or your wife’s towards weed or nurses). When it’s getting romantically involved with another pilot in your unit who may be flying on your wing the next day, it’s a bit more than just bad judgment. Bottom line – again – none of this improves our capabilities.

Not PC – Not fair. I know. That’s not the mission of the military.

GunshipGuy

Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical of the AF to make arguments that women in fighters add to the mission when at the same time they aren't allowed to serve on MH-53s? They're being replaced by the CV-22; don't know if they're denied seats in that cockpit as well.

Albief15

[QUOTE=Adlerdriver;438280] Not fair. I know. That’s not the mission of the military.[/QUOTE

You are such a dinosaur. But then again...so am I...

Adlerdriver

Thanks.

SaltyDog

Albi, Adler.
In off the arc......
Anyway, I'm a dinosaur, but like divorce, single parents, etc the younger folks accept the mayhem as 'ops normal' as do the taxpayers, etc.
Again, never a capability thing (though interesting that Navy changed the standards of physical fitness in the obstacle course to eliminate the high failure rate for women back in the post tailhook era of free love).
Most of the argument is not really against our women aviators, like mentioned earlier, my Navy enlisted sister had some interesting observations, high abortion rate which is was used as a job change program, etc during the early years, the fraternization issues, etc. Oh well. I support the policy, but if you grew up this way in the mixed gender world, doesn't mean it's improved, just managed. Life isn't fair, but the US military better be for PC sake.
AK Hawg, the racial argument is total straw woman: Skin color is just skin color and has no bearing on the basic human differences and relationships of women and men. If that is a valid argument, then we should support every difference (pedophiles just to be up front) should be allowed since it is just a matter of re-education and inculturation.
BTW, got to fly with the first woman French Naval Aviator. Very competent.

SD off free , extending to the arc..

FDXLAG

But how were her piloting skills?

dtfl

BUT...Women are still not allowed in "Direct Action" units. Infantry, etc. The Paves and Ospreys, due to their mission, are considered DA units.

USMCFLYR

I guess the difference in the -22 mission starement must have something to do with that then because there is at least one female pilot in the USMC MV-22 squadron currently deployed to OIF.

USMCFLYR

Adlerdriver

The only reason a fighter cockpit is not considered "DA" is because of the recent success we've had in avoiding significant combat losses. I guarantee that Bud Day, Robbie Risner and the hundreds of POWs as well as KIA Vietnam fighter pilots would argue that their cockpits were very "DA".

GunshipGuy

So no tasking of DA missions for A-10s, F-15Es, AC-130s, etc with women on board...got it. OR, could it be that the pave low mafia (and their high ranking brass) won't accept reality.