Navy or AF?
07-09-2008, 10:09 AM
#11
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More USAF vs USN
Blazer:
I've flown for both services. If you want fixed-wing, go USAF. I have been told that 60% of all Navy pilots are Helo-drivers, and from my observation, that sounds about right.
In the USAF, only 2-3% fly helicopters--and you have to volunteer to get helos (ie, you must be certifiably insane).
If you want fighters, the USAF has more fighters/attack jets than the Navy, but not by much.
If you want heavy-jet time, go Air Force. The Navy doesn't have any.
On the other hand, the Navy has very few UAVs and no PC-12s (that I know of) to ream you out of pilot training when you thought you were getting a fighter (or even a heavy-jet).
You'll get more flight hours in the USAF than you will in the Navy, whether you are a heavy driver or fighter guy.
The Navy does have Godsmack as a soundtrack on their commercials to "accelerate your life."
Both services will send you to a non-flying job in the sandbox about mid-career.
Seriously, for overall quality of life, the USAF has the Navy beat. There are some really neat things you can do in the Navy, but after being away at sea for a year, you may wonder if it was worth it.
I've flown for both services. If you want fixed-wing, go USAF. I have been told that 60% of all Navy pilots are Helo-drivers, and from my observation, that sounds about right.
In the USAF, only 2-3% fly helicopters--and you have to volunteer to get helos (ie, you must be certifiably insane).
If you want fighters, the USAF has more fighters/attack jets than the Navy, but not by much.
If you want heavy-jet time, go Air Force. The Navy doesn't have any.
On the other hand, the Navy has very few UAVs and no PC-12s (that I know of) to ream you out of pilot training when you thought you were getting a fighter (or even a heavy-jet).
You'll get more flight hours in the USAF than you will in the Navy, whether you are a heavy driver or fighter guy.
The Navy does have Godsmack as a soundtrack on their commercials to "accelerate your life."
Both services will send you to a non-flying job in the sandbox about mid-career.
Seriously, for overall quality of life, the USAF has the Navy beat. There are some really neat things you can do in the Navy, but after being away at sea for a year, you may wonder if it was worth it.
07-09-2008, 10:20 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
The USAF Rebuttal to Bob Norris
Salty:
When the USAF saw Bob's letter some years ago, a rebuttal was generated that has made its rounds through the Air Force. Here it is, partially editted.
Of note: visit Bob's website. He was a Hornet driver until he got brain cancer. Survived it, but his flying days are over. That being said, this letter should be taken as good-natured fun, just like his, and not a personal attack.
USAF Snapshot: The USAF is exceptionally well organized and well run, but the down-day for “Safety Day” will always be scheduled on the best flying day of the year. Their training programs are terrific, except when the current syllabus makes no sense, or new base-wide computer systems are installed with untested software, and hands-on training is an informal afterthought. All pilots are groomed to meet high standards for knowledge and professionalism, but that doesn’t mean that it will stick. Those who fail to meet standards are given waivers for political-correctness. Their aircraft are top-notch and extremely well maintained, unless you are in a dying weapon-system, where you will scrounge parts from jets on pedestals (yup, I’ve actually done this). Their facilities are excellent, and yes, the Navy looks like the third-world in comparison. Their enlisted personnel are the brightest and the best trained, and since they don’t eat on a ship, are at least 20 lbs lighter than their Navy counterparts. The USAF is homogenous and macro, which means you will drink vitamin-D milk and have Microsoft Word on your desktop. No matter where you go, you'll know what to expect (damaged household goods), what is expected of you (join the O’Club or you won’t get promoted), and you'll be given the training & tools you need to meet those expectations (TQM, ORM, CRM, and Diversity Training). You will never be put in a situation over your head; rather, you will suddenly find yourself in over your head. Over a 20-year career, you will be home for most important family events (your wedding; your first round of marriage counseling due to constant deployment; your Divorce due to constant deployments, your child custody hearing, and your commander-ordered credit-check and financial history investigation). Your Mom would want you to be an Air Force pilot...so would your ex-wife. Your Dad would want your sister to marry one, unless that pilot was a chick. That would just be wrong.
Navy Snapshot: Aviators are part of the Navy, but so are Black shoes (surface warfare) and bubble heads (submariners). “Fly Navy” makes as much sense as “Float Air Force.” The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. Your squadron is your home; it may be great, average, or awful---just like the Air Force. A squadron can go from one extreme to the other before you know it---just like the Air Force. You will spend months preparing for cruise and months on cruise, while if in the USAF, you will spend months in the sandbox. The quality of the aircraft varies directly with the availability of parts, which is an issue since most money in the Navy goes to boats. Senior Navy enlisted are the salt of the earth; you'll be proud if you earn their respect---just like the Air Force. Junior enlisted vary from terrific to the troubled kid the judge made join the service. The quality of your training will vary and sometimes you will be in over your head. You will miss many important family events. There will be long stretches of tedious duty aboard ship. You will fly in very bad weather and/or at night and you will be scared many times (ditto for the Air Force). You will fly with legends in the Navy in 4 v 4s against legends in the Air Force, and the USAF will kick your a$$ until you go back to “Marshall Stack.” Somehow, while awaiting your turn to “trap” in holding, you will expect (or hope) to become a lethal force. The Air Force will do 2 v2 while you are gone.
And some days - when the scheduling Gods have smiled upon you - your jet will catapult into a glorious morning over a far-away sea and you will be drop-jawed that someone would pay you to do it. Taking-off and landing from a carrier is an elite and admirable skill, to be sure. However, that esoteric ability does not translate into combat power or force projection if your target is more than 250 miles inland. That requires an Air Force tanker.
The hottest girl in the bar wants to meet the Naval Aviator. That bar is in Singapore. She is the hottest girl in that bar, but she is a TDY (TAD) 9…..a CONUS 4. She has a host of communicable diseases, many of which have no cure; some which could be fatal. She wants to get into your g-suit because you represent financial security to her and her entire immediate family of 17 people. She knows a drunk sailor is an easy-mark.
Meanwhile, your Air Force buddy (who kicked your a$$ in the last Cope Thunder) is working on a hot state-side chick he won’t be ashamed to be seen with the next day.
Bottom line, son, if you gotta ask...screw the academies. Go ROTC or OTS!!!!
-S
PS Air Force pilots are issued scarves, but only wear them when yelled at, or for squadron photos. The Navy thinks a flight suit isn’t a uniform, and only recently allowed them to be worn to and from their homes to the base. They used to have to change in the locker room—like”Maverick.”
The Blue Angels do put on a better and more aggressive show than the Thunderbirds, though.
When the USAF saw Bob's letter some years ago, a rebuttal was generated that has made its rounds through the Air Force. Here it is, partially editted.
Of note: visit Bob's website. He was a Hornet driver until he got brain cancer. Survived it, but his flying days are over. That being said, this letter should be taken as good-natured fun, just like his, and not a personal attack.
USAF Snapshot: The USAF is exceptionally well organized and well run, but the down-day for “Safety Day” will always be scheduled on the best flying day of the year. Their training programs are terrific, except when the current syllabus makes no sense, or new base-wide computer systems are installed with untested software, and hands-on training is an informal afterthought. All pilots are groomed to meet high standards for knowledge and professionalism, but that doesn’t mean that it will stick. Those who fail to meet standards are given waivers for political-correctness. Their aircraft are top-notch and extremely well maintained, unless you are in a dying weapon-system, where you will scrounge parts from jets on pedestals (yup, I’ve actually done this). Their facilities are excellent, and yes, the Navy looks like the third-world in comparison. Their enlisted personnel are the brightest and the best trained, and since they don’t eat on a ship, are at least 20 lbs lighter than their Navy counterparts. The USAF is homogenous and macro, which means you will drink vitamin-D milk and have Microsoft Word on your desktop. No matter where you go, you'll know what to expect (damaged household goods), what is expected of you (join the O’Club or you won’t get promoted), and you'll be given the training & tools you need to meet those expectations (TQM, ORM, CRM, and Diversity Training). You will never be put in a situation over your head; rather, you will suddenly find yourself in over your head. Over a 20-year career, you will be home for most important family events (your wedding; your first round of marriage counseling due to constant deployment; your Divorce due to constant deployments, your child custody hearing, and your commander-ordered credit-check and financial history investigation). Your Mom would want you to be an Air Force pilot...so would your ex-wife. Your Dad would want your sister to marry one, unless that pilot was a chick. That would just be wrong.
Navy Snapshot: Aviators are part of the Navy, but so are Black shoes (surface warfare) and bubble heads (submariners). “Fly Navy” makes as much sense as “Float Air Force.” The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. Your squadron is your home; it may be great, average, or awful---just like the Air Force. A squadron can go from one extreme to the other before you know it---just like the Air Force. You will spend months preparing for cruise and months on cruise, while if in the USAF, you will spend months in the sandbox. The quality of the aircraft varies directly with the availability of parts, which is an issue since most money in the Navy goes to boats. Senior Navy enlisted are the salt of the earth; you'll be proud if you earn their respect---just like the Air Force. Junior enlisted vary from terrific to the troubled kid the judge made join the service. The quality of your training will vary and sometimes you will be in over your head. You will miss many important family events. There will be long stretches of tedious duty aboard ship. You will fly in very bad weather and/or at night and you will be scared many times (ditto for the Air Force). You will fly with legends in the Navy in 4 v 4s against legends in the Air Force, and the USAF will kick your a$$ until you go back to “Marshall Stack.” Somehow, while awaiting your turn to “trap” in holding, you will expect (or hope) to become a lethal force. The Air Force will do 2 v2 while you are gone.
And some days - when the scheduling Gods have smiled upon you - your jet will catapult into a glorious morning over a far-away sea and you will be drop-jawed that someone would pay you to do it. Taking-off and landing from a carrier is an elite and admirable skill, to be sure. However, that esoteric ability does not translate into combat power or force projection if your target is more than 250 miles inland. That requires an Air Force tanker.
The hottest girl in the bar wants to meet the Naval Aviator. That bar is in Singapore. She is the hottest girl in that bar, but she is a TDY (TAD) 9…..a CONUS 4. She has a host of communicable diseases, many of which have no cure; some which could be fatal. She wants to get into your g-suit because you represent financial security to her and her entire immediate family of 17 people. She knows a drunk sailor is an easy-mark.
Meanwhile, your Air Force buddy (who kicked your a$$ in the last Cope Thunder) is working on a hot state-side chick he won’t be ashamed to be seen with the next day.
Bottom line, son, if you gotta ask...screw the academies. Go ROTC or OTS!!!!
-S
PS Air Force pilots are issued scarves, but only wear them when yelled at, or for squadron photos. The Navy thinks a flight suit isn’t a uniform, and only recently allowed them to be worn to and from their homes to the base. They used to have to change in the locker room—like”Maverick.”
The Blue Angels do put on a better and more aggressive show than the Thunderbirds, though.
07-09-2008, 10:56 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,090
You volunteer for it the same way you volunteer for any aircraft, i.e. show up at UPT. If there's some helo's in your drop and no one wants one guess what, those slots will still get filled.
07-09-2008, 11:14 AM
#15
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 711
You may want to look into OCS for Navy or OTS for Air Force then. Talk to a recruiter. Just be warned, while there is nothing wrong with enlisted personnel, trying to become a pilot by enlisting first is the wrong (and hard) way to go about it. Recruiters sometimes do suggest that but it is not the right way to go about becoming a pilot. Talk to a recruiter about Officer School. I don't know how it works for Air Force, but for Navy you select what you want to be before beginning that program.
07-09-2008, 11:17 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: B777 Left
Posts: 736
A similar question was asked of me when I was "mentoring" some NFOs in an A6 RAG. This particular NFO washed out of the the A6 program because of air sickness. He was given the choice to be an NFO in an E2 (Navy lifestyle off the boat) or a P3 (Airforce lifestyle on the beach).
I said, think about it....when you finish your flight in P3 which way do you walk to get to your bunk. The answer..horizontally. When you finish your flight in the E2, which way to your bunk...vertically (down below).
NFOs-Naval Flight Officer (RIOs, BNs, Weapons systems operators)-no stick time.
RAG-Replacement Air Group (transition training squadron)
After years on navy active duty and the reserves I'm proud to be a Naval Aviator, but for lifestyle and and for the most part top of the line well maintained aircraft-Air Force. The golf courses seem to be better at Air Force Bases.
Just MHO.
I said, think about it....when you finish your flight in P3 which way do you walk to get to your bunk. The answer..horizontally. When you finish your flight in the E2, which way to your bunk...vertically (down below).
NFOs-Naval Flight Officer (RIOs, BNs, Weapons systems operators)-no stick time.
RAG-Replacement Air Group (transition training squadron)
After years on navy active duty and the reserves I'm proud to be a Naval Aviator, but for lifestyle and and for the most part top of the line well maintained aircraft-Air Force. The golf courses seem to be better at Air Force Bases.
Just MHO.
07-09-2008, 11:19 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
UAL T-38,
I get a kick out of it all. Got my DD-214's from USMC, USAF, Navy. All good depending what you are looking for, cause you'll find some of it and a whole lot you weren't <g>. Me, got kicked outta the the others so went squid <bg>
The parochialism doesn't phase me, personally, even the Coast Guard and Army has some great career paths. Have buds everywhere in virtually every service like you. I told the young buckaroo to go where hired, but lifestyle is an issue. The article is a humourous look at the military world. I agree with alot of it, but doesn't matter. BTW, Navy does have some "heavy" if you include the Tinker crews flying the E-6 (KC-135 style) that are active, not reserve.
I get a kick out of it all. Got my DD-214's from USMC, USAF, Navy. All good depending what you are looking for, cause you'll find some of it and a whole lot you weren't <g>. Me, got kicked outta the the others so went squid <bg>
The parochialism doesn't phase me, personally, even the Coast Guard and Army has some great career paths. Have buds everywhere in virtually every service like you. I told the young buckaroo to go where hired, but lifestyle is an issue. The article is a humourous look at the military world. I agree with alot of it, but doesn't matter. BTW, Navy does have some "heavy" if you include the Tinker crews flying the E-6 (KC-135 style) that are active, not reserve.
07-09-2008, 11:26 AM
#18
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Position: Curator at Static Display
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Mea Culpa
Salty:
Forgot about the TACAMOs; was thinking only "big" jets were C-9s and the 737-Whatever they call it (C-40?). Yeah, The E-6 is in the Heavy Category.
Sputnik:
That must have changed. When I was a 2Lt, they only took volunteers for helos. Didn't know they were doing that. Still, the percentages in the USAF are way better than the USN.
And face it--even with the dismal state of the airlines right now, I think there are fewer options if you are a helo-driver. Air-Ambulance and offshore rigs are the two biggest employers.
Forgot about the TACAMOs; was thinking only "big" jets were C-9s and the 737-Whatever they call it (C-40?). Yeah, The E-6 is in the Heavy Category.
Sputnik:
That must have changed. When I was a 2Lt, they only took volunteers for helos. Didn't know they were doing that. Still, the percentages in the USAF are way better than the USN.
And face it--even with the dismal state of the airlines right now, I think there are fewer options if you are a helo-driver. Air-Ambulance and offshore rigs are the two biggest employers.
07-09-2008, 11:56 AM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Bunk Logging Other Time
Posts: 79
I say take whatever you can get. My father was 24 years in the Navy and I thought I would be too and then the Air Force offered me the best scholarship for ROTC so that was an easy choice. They all have their advantages and drawbacks...I definitely think you should also check out the Coast Guard. They get forgotten about sometimes but have flying opportunities also...
The fastest way to build hours IMO though would be a heavy Air Force aircraft (C-17, C-5, KC-10 OR 135) or P-3s for a tour and then flight instruct in the Navy if that is what you want...
The Navy is almost always on the coast which is a plus...but the Air Force is centered on flying and pilots are always going to be running the show.
You will have to figure out what you want for your life though...
The fastest way to build hours IMO though would be a heavy Air Force aircraft (C-17, C-5, KC-10 OR 135) or P-3s for a tour and then flight instruct in the Navy if that is what you want...
The Navy is almost always on the coast which is a plus...but the Air Force is centered on flying and pilots are always going to be running the show.
You will have to figure out what you want for your life though...
07-09-2008, 12:41 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,839
You may want to look into OCS for Navy or OTS for Air Force then. Talk to a recruiter. Just be warned, while there is nothing wrong with enlisted personnel, trying to become a pilot by enlisting first is the wrong (and hard) way to go about it. Recruiters sometimes do suggest that but it is not the right way to go about becoming a pilot. Talk to a recruiter about Officer School. I don't know how it works for Air Force, but for Navy you select what you want to be before beginning that program.
Python -
What do you mean by the statement highlighted above? Do you mean selecting aviation vice surface/subs?
USMCFLYR
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