tango1998

Does anyone have a clear answer on how to count T-37 and T38 Pilot in Command hours? Looking at the FAR, the definition says you need to be qualified in the aircraft and be the sole manipulator of the controls. If that is true, then when you complete your first checkride and can now solo it (i.e. checked out the aircraft), isn't all the hours from that point on PIC? You may still be a student and log your time as "primary UP", but your training is in military areas, not basic aircraft handling training. Therefore, all UPT time after your first checkride should be PIC if I read that correctly. Then, I would assume all my T-38 UPT time after the first checkride is PIC, as well as all my IFF time.

Can someone please confirm or deny this? Thanks a lot.

BDGERJMN

I'm not sure how the AF logs it, but you can only log Aircraft Commander time if you sign for the jet, which equates to PIC. If you signed for the jet it's PIC. If your IP signed for the jet, they get the PIC.

LOBO

If you are referring to your first Contact Check ride in either the Tweet or 38 then the answer is NO because those are UPT Cat check rides not Form 8 check rides. Now the time that your were solo in the Tweet (i.e. 7-9 hours counts as PIC) and the time you were solo in the 38 (15-22 hours)

If you have Tweet or 38 time after UPT (Instructor Time) then you have another ball of wax to deal with for the FAR interpretation of sole manipulator of the controls because of the time you might have flown with another Instructor.

But, make sure you do include that time from UPT in your total time

Like BDGERJMN said if something happen to the jet who would get in trouble you or the IP!!!

P-Funk

In UPT all SOLO time is PIC, the rest counts as total time. The basic rule is unless you had a Form 8 in the jet you can only log solo as PIC. Be honest and conservative with the times you report to the airlines. Good luck.

P

Spur

You cannot log SIC in either the 37 or the 38. I would log all solo time as PIC, but realize many airlines specifically exclude "student time", so be prepared to factor that out.

ugleeual

Safe just not to count any of your UPT time... most of the majors don't count "student time" (time before you get your wings) as worth much more than total time.

Buzz

Tango,

I interviewed with AirTran, SWA and Delta (now employed by Delta), I reported all of my T-37 solo time and T-38 solo time as PIC. None of the three aforementioned airlines even batted an eye.

The rest of your UPT time counts as multi-engine turbine time only, which should be included in your total turbine time. NONE of your T-37 or T-38 UPT time with an IP in the jet is PIC, NONE (nor SIC either). As mentioned by another of the bros above, a UPT checkride qualifies you for diddly squat. If you went to IFF, none of that time is PIC either unless you were solo in the jet. Any time you have in the F-15D or F-16D is also NOT PIC. Bottom line, any military flight you have ever had with an IP in the aircraft is not PIC. Any flight time you have in a military aircraft that you were solo, or the AC in a crew aircraft, is PIC.

Any more questions or if you want a copy of the spreadsheets I used to calculate my airline PIC time, PM me.

Good luck,

Buzz

webecheck

good........

BDGERJMN

Just my .02 here but if an interviewer asked if I ever 'failed a checkride' and I had failed an instrument check or NATOPs check(or AF equivalent) in the past, I'd pipe up and tell him/her I did and why and what I learned from it. Heaven forbid it would come up in conversation with a former squadronmate who's on the property and knows of the busted checkride. Same holds true for an application IMHO.

Tarheel

Student checkrides during AF UPT do not generate any paperwork in your permanent record. They're not even "real" evals; they're only purpose is to ensure you are ready for the next phase of training. The EP adminstering the rides are not logging eval time. There's no need to 'fess up about a taco on your tweet instrument check.