VA disability vs FAA medical
09-14-2023, 08:45 PM
#141
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 96
There are more issues than one to consider: the VA began this process. NOT the FAA.
The FAA began looking at the VA records for two purposes: one is aa failure to report. Another is conditions which do not meet the medical standard.
Failure to report is a no-go; there's nothing to argue. It's a regulatory violation and may very well result in revocation of the medical certificate falsification. It's a serious issue.
If one reports a condition, reporting does not make the condition acceptable. Taken to the extreme, if one were to report that one's brain had been removed, making that report does not make one medically fit. It simply means that one complied with the requirement to report. Reporting a condition that does not meet medical certification standards does not grant one a medical certificate.
Further, reporting that one has received disability benefits means that A) one has complied with the requirement to report receiving disability benefits; B) one may have a medical condition which meets medical standards ,and C) one may have a medical condition which requires further documentation to determine that one meets medical standards. This, in turn, leaves two possibilities: one meets the medical standard, or one does not.
One does NOT have a right to a medical certificate. Like a pilot certificate, issuance (and retention) is a privilege based on meeting the standards, and upon a determination by the agency charged by an Act of Congress to both make that determination, and to issue the certificate. Reporting a disability benefit is not a free pass to medical certification. It's doing one's legal duty. The FAA does have a right to determine fitness, and a responsibility to do so.
The FAA does NOT base it's decisions, or it's request for additional information, testing, data, etc, upon a military disability rating. The FAA bases it's decisions based on it's own criteria. Providing medical information to the FAA does not grant a medical certificate. If one provides medical information, or if it is obtained, and a determination is made that the airman applicant does not meet the standard, that's the FAA's call. The FAA makes this determination based not only on meeting the medical standard, but on the impact that the applicants condition will have on the applicant for the duration of the medical certificate: this IS the standard. It's not just how you are on the day you show up for the exam, but how you are expected to be, or could be reasonably be expected to be, for the duration of the certificate. This includes factors which may be external to the applicant.
A good example is the PTSD standard which is given by worksheet to the aviation medical examiner, which includes a series of questions for both the applicant, and for the examiner. A "no" answer to any of them, including additional criterial spelled out in notes after the questions, the aviation medical examiner must defer. Additionally, the AME may defer as he or she sees appropriate, and must consider not only the PTSD, but also the triggers which may impact that in the cockpit or going forward.
If one has been suicidal at some point, showing up for the medical exam does not mean one is granted the medical certification simply because one is not suicidal on the day of the exam. Simply because one does not kill one's self in the doctor's office does not mean that ones mental and emotional health isn't at risk going forward. Reporting that condition does not make one eligible.
Even if one has been issued a medical certificate, the FAA is not prohibited from re-visiting the condition or the applicant. "Previously Reported, No Change" is not a free pass any more than reporting the condition in the first place.
One is not entitled to a medical certificate.
The FAA began looking at the VA records for two purposes: one is aa failure to report. Another is conditions which do not meet the medical standard.
Failure to report is a no-go; there's nothing to argue. It's a regulatory violation and may very well result in revocation of the medical certificate falsification. It's a serious issue.
If one reports a condition, reporting does not make the condition acceptable. Taken to the extreme, if one were to report that one's brain had been removed, making that report does not make one medically fit. It simply means that one complied with the requirement to report. Reporting a condition that does not meet medical certification standards does not grant one a medical certificate.
Further, reporting that one has received disability benefits means that A) one has complied with the requirement to report receiving disability benefits; B) one may have a medical condition which meets medical standards ,and C) one may have a medical condition which requires further documentation to determine that one meets medical standards. This, in turn, leaves two possibilities: one meets the medical standard, or one does not.
One does NOT have a right to a medical certificate. Like a pilot certificate, issuance (and retention) is a privilege based on meeting the standards, and upon a determination by the agency charged by an Act of Congress to both make that determination, and to issue the certificate. Reporting a disability benefit is not a free pass to medical certification. It's doing one's legal duty. The FAA does have a right to determine fitness, and a responsibility to do so.
The FAA does NOT base it's decisions, or it's request for additional information, testing, data, etc, upon a military disability rating. The FAA bases it's decisions based on it's own criteria. Providing medical information to the FAA does not grant a medical certificate. If one provides medical information, or if it is obtained, and a determination is made that the airman applicant does not meet the standard, that's the FAA's call. The FAA makes this determination based not only on meeting the medical standard, but on the impact that the applicants condition will have on the applicant for the duration of the medical certificate: this IS the standard. It's not just how you are on the day you show up for the exam, but how you are expected to be, or could be reasonably be expected to be, for the duration of the certificate. This includes factors which may be external to the applicant.
A good example is the PTSD standard which is given by worksheet to the aviation medical examiner, which includes a series of questions for both the applicant, and for the examiner. A "no" answer to any of them, including additional criterial spelled out in notes after the questions, the aviation medical examiner must defer. Additionally, the AME may defer as he or she sees appropriate, and must consider not only the PTSD, but also the triggers which may impact that in the cockpit or going forward.
If one has been suicidal at some point, showing up for the medical exam does not mean one is granted the medical certification simply because one is not suicidal on the day of the exam. Simply because one does not kill one's self in the doctor's office does not mean that ones mental and emotional health isn't at risk going forward. Reporting that condition does not make one eligible.
Even if one has been issued a medical certificate, the FAA is not prohibited from re-visiting the condition or the applicant. "Previously Reported, No Change" is not a free pass any more than reporting the condition in the first place.
One is not entitled to a medical certificate.
if you can’t cite that then you’re a god damn liar.
Last edited by JBird; 09-14-2023 at 09:00 PM.
09-14-2023, 09:02 PM
#142
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,382
He's not a liar, it was reported in the media that the VA initiated the whole thing. FAA is of course playing along.
No idea why VA cares, other than maybe they think it's fraud and costing them money.
No more insults, not sure why you're wound up about this, unless you forgot to check 18(y).
09-15-2023, 02:51 PM
#144
Ignoring; John Burke.
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Position: Wandering
Posts: 235
There is so much wrong with this post.
Don’t be a jerk and confront people when they are allowed to park in disabled spaces.
This sounds almost as bad as those old timers who confront women parking in veterans spaces.
And no, Texas didn’t prevent that this year. They simply added more layers of government bureaucracy. You take your VA disability finding (from a doctor) to the county, they give you a sheet to fill out, you get that filled out (from a doctor), and now you get your placard.
The sheet can even be filled out by the same doctor. It’s just the government clerks down at each county protecting their fiefdom.
Don’t be a jerk.
Don’t be a jerk and confront people when they are allowed to park in disabled spaces.
This sounds almost as bad as those old timers who confront women parking in veterans spaces.
And no, Texas didn’t prevent that this year. They simply added more layers of government bureaucracy. You take your VA disability finding (from a doctor) to the county, they give you a sheet to fill out, you get that filled out (from a doctor), and now you get your placard.
The sheet can even be filled out by the same doctor. It’s just the government clerks down at each county protecting their fiefdom.
Don’t be a jerk.
Imagine how the average citizen feels at the parking garage, seeing their captain ( in uniform), parking next to the elevator., in a handicap spot.
There is no additional layer of bureaucracy. They are now holding vets to the same standard as everyone else…for parking.
Texas takes good care of their vets. I don’t know of another state that gives DV plates, free terminal parking and free toll road travel to vets with only 50%. Our neighbor to the north allow only 100% DV to even have a DV plate. I suspect most other states aren’t as generous either.
There are always a few spoilers who want to push the limits, to their own advantage, at the expense of others.
I’m glad Texas caught on and still gives us these perks. They could easily follow Arkansas or other states who are not so generous.
The jerk is the 35 year old airline pilot with a 50% rating for PTSD and IBS, taking a handicap spot that’s truly needed by someone else.
And the two people I confronted said the same thing. You know what they didn’t say? I have trouble walking 100 feet to the elevator. They both said. “ yeah, I’m running a little late”.
Last edited by hopp; 09-15-2023 at 03:17 PM.
09-16-2023, 08:41 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,186
There is a lot wrong with YOUR post. Texas gives DV plates to anyone with a 50% rating, and allowed all DV to park in handicap slots. It was an oversight.. Anyone else would have to have a statement from a doctor, stating they need preferential parking due to a physical disability, (Having PTSD does not qualify) and a tag or emblem on their license plate. Texas corrected their oversight, in response to complaints from truly DISABLED people who really need to park close. Frankly it’s embarrassing, and they put the whole DV parking program at risk in Texas. In some major cities, DV plates get free terminal garage parking, and there (were) are, many who want that privilege revoked. Its very valuable @24-36 dollars/day, and no 30 minute bus ride.
Imagine how the average citizen feels at the parking garage, seeing their captain ( in uniform), parking next to the elevator., in a handicap spot.
There is no additional layer of bureaucracy. They are now holding vets to the same standard as everyone else…for parking.
Texas takes good care of their vets. I don’t know of another state that gives DV plates, free terminal parking and free toll road travel to vets with only 50%. Our neighbor to the north allow only 100% DV to even have a DV plate. I suspect most other states aren’t as generous either.
There are always a few spoilers who want to push the limits, to their own advantage, at the expense of others.
I’m glad Texas caught on and still gives us these perks. They could easily follow Arkansas or other states who are not so generous.
The jerk is the 35 year old airline pilot with a 50% rating for PTSD and IBS, taking a handicap spot that’s truly needed by someone else.
And the two people I confronted said the same thing. You know what they didn’t say? I have trouble walking 100 feet to the elevator. They both said. “ yeah, I’m running a little late”.
Imagine how the average citizen feels at the parking garage, seeing their captain ( in uniform), parking next to the elevator., in a handicap spot.
There is no additional layer of bureaucracy. They are now holding vets to the same standard as everyone else…for parking.
Texas takes good care of their vets. I don’t know of another state that gives DV plates, free terminal parking and free toll road travel to vets with only 50%. Our neighbor to the north allow only 100% DV to even have a DV plate. I suspect most other states aren’t as generous either.
There are always a few spoilers who want to push the limits, to their own advantage, at the expense of others.
I’m glad Texas caught on and still gives us these perks. They could easily follow Arkansas or other states who are not so generous.
The jerk is the 35 year old airline pilot with a 50% rating for PTSD and IBS, taking a handicap spot that’s truly needed by someone else.
And the two people I confronted said the same thing. You know what they didn’t say? I have trouble walking 100 feet to the elevator. They both said. “ yeah, I’m running a little late”.
Same as the old guys who yell at women parking in Veterans parking spaces. Total jerk move.
Texas didn’t CORRECT anything. The little bureaucrats at the county license plate offices got upset that their power was taken away.
A disabled vet has been determined by doctors and the federal government to have a disability. This resulted in a DV plate AND a disabled placard being issued to the disabled veteran. That was their qualification, same as if a civilian had a note from a doctor.
Now, they have to go through ANOTHER layer of bureaucracy to get their disabled placard. Sometimes, IT IS THE EXACT SAME DOCTOR signing the second form. Apparently, vets have to complete 2 forms and get 2 notes from doctors while civilians only have to do that once.
But back to the point. You confronting people who were legally parking in a disabled space is a jerk move.
.
09-16-2023, 09:21 AM
#146
Ignoring; John Burke.
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Position: Wandering
Posts: 235
Texas didn’t CORRECT anything. The little bureaucrats at the county license plate offices got upset that their power was taken away.
A disabled vet has been determined by doctors and the federal government to have a disability. This resulted in a DV plate AND a disabled placard being issued to the disabled veteran. That was their qualification, same as if a civilian had a note from a doctor.
Now, they have to go through ANOTHER layer of bureaucracy to get their disabled placard. Sometimes, IT IS THE EXACT SAME DOCTOR signing the second form. Apparently, vets have to complete 2 forms and get 2 notes from doctors while civilians only have to do that once.
.
Until Jan 2022, no veteran in Texas was automatically issued disabled parking placard. That required a separate action., as it does now.
The “exact same doctor” that you claim, signing the second form doesn’t exist, in the way that you put it. You must not have paid attention when you were issued your rating, if you have one. The doctor you see for the DV evaluation, doesn’t sign anything, except their evolution notes that go to the VA, and they don’t take appointments from vets for parking placards. They are a service provider that contracts with the VA solely for veteran evaluations for a rating.
The people at the license office don’t care about how many forms you have to fill out. They didn’t have any power taken away. If anything they just got a little more authority and work load to review an additional sheet for any VET wanting a Handicap, placard. I know several of them.. t They really don’t care. They’re just doing their job. These clerks didn’t write the new law. That was the legislature.
I don’t get why you come off so defensive about this. Did someone challenge you in a handicap parking spot? If it’s some PTSD problem that triggers you so easily, I’m sorry for your condition. Consider counseling.
Yea, it was “legal” under Texas law for anyone with a DV plate to park in an handicap zone…until 2022. You’re splitting hairs, claiming apparently that just because something is legal, is also right. It isn’t, it wasn’t , and now it’s fixed. Too bad of you have to visit another doctor to get signed off to park in a “HANDICAP” parking spot. It must be a terrific inconvenience for an airline pilot in such poor physical condition. At least don’t embarrass the profession by wearing a uniform when you take that handicap parking space.
09-16-2023, 10:00 AM
#147
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,298
I know pilots with one eye. I know pilots with one leg. I know one pilot with no legs. I know a lot of pilots with artificial joints, foot problems, etc. For some, doing the job is no problem, but walking a long distance is more than an inconvenience. It's painful.
Don't assume that because someone puts on a pilot shirt, they're an athlete.
A pilot with a handicap plate is not an embarrassment to the industry. Nor is parking in a handicap spot, if one has the documentation to do so.
One ought not claim a handicap one to which one is not subject, or entitled, nor should one play the handicap card if not warranted. One of my heroes, growing up, was Douglas Bader, a British pilot with no legs, who didn't think he was handicapped. Never the less, he used it to his every advantage, going so far as to use a hollow leg to hide stolen vegetables for other prisoners during his time in a Nazi prison in Germany. Let's face it, we all work with what we've got, and we'd be idiots not to, every bit as much as one with education and intellect ought not dumb down. Be you.
That said, don't be the handicap police. Those exist, in this case both at the VA (which started this investigation, as already documented, quoted, and cited), and the FAA, et al. You needed concern yourself personally if the other guy is handicapped enough for you, nor whether his level of disability or discomfort rises to your level of approval.
Don't assume that because someone puts on a pilot shirt, they're an athlete.
A pilot with a handicap plate is not an embarrassment to the industry. Nor is parking in a handicap spot, if one has the documentation to do so.
One ought not claim a handicap one to which one is not subject, or entitled, nor should one play the handicap card if not warranted. One of my heroes, growing up, was Douglas Bader, a British pilot with no legs, who didn't think he was handicapped. Never the less, he used it to his every advantage, going so far as to use a hollow leg to hide stolen vegetables for other prisoners during his time in a Nazi prison in Germany. Let's face it, we all work with what we've got, and we'd be idiots not to, every bit as much as one with education and intellect ought not dumb down. Be you.
That said, don't be the handicap police. Those exist, in this case both at the VA (which started this investigation, as already documented, quoted, and cited), and the FAA, et al. You needed concern yourself personally if the other guy is handicapped enough for you, nor whether his level of disability or discomfort rises to your level of approval.
09-17-2023, 03:19 AM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,186
Your really don’t know what you are talking about. At least not in Texas or with the VA.
Until Jan 2022, no veteran in Texas was automatically issued disabled parking placard. That required a separate action., as it does now.
The “exact same doctor” that you claim, signing the second form doesn’t exist, in the way that you put it. You must not have paid attention when you were issued your rating, if you have one. The doctor you see for the DV evaluation, doesn’t sign anything, except their evolution notes that go to the VA, and they don’t take appointments from vets for parking placards. They are a service provider that contracts with the VA solely for veteran evaluations for a rating.
The people at the license office don’t care about how many forms you have to fill out. They didn’t have any power taken away. If anything they just got a little more authority and work load to review an additional sheet for any VET wanting a Handicap, placard. I know several of them.. t They really don’t care. They’re just doing their job. These clerks didn’t write the new law. That was the legislature.
I don’t get why you come off so defensive about this. Did someone challenge you in a handicap parking spot? If it’s some PTSD problem that triggers you so easily, I’m sorry for your condition. Consider counseling.
Yea, it was “legal” under Texas law for anyone with a DV plate to park in an handicap zone…until 2022. You’re splitting hairs, claiming apparently that just because something is legal, is also right. It isn’t, it wasn’t , and now it’s fixed. Too bad of you have to visit another doctor to get signed off to park in a “HANDICAP” parking spot. It must be a terrific inconvenience for an airline pilot in such poor physical condition. At least don’t embarrass the profession by wearing a uniform when you take that handicap parking space.
Until Jan 2022, no veteran in Texas was automatically issued disabled parking placard. That required a separate action., as it does now.
The “exact same doctor” that you claim, signing the second form doesn’t exist, in the way that you put it. You must not have paid attention when you were issued your rating, if you have one. The doctor you see for the DV evaluation, doesn’t sign anything, except their evolution notes that go to the VA, and they don’t take appointments from vets for parking placards. They are a service provider that contracts with the VA solely for veteran evaluations for a rating.
The people at the license office don’t care about how many forms you have to fill out. They didn’t have any power taken away. If anything they just got a little more authority and work load to review an additional sheet for any VET wanting a Handicap, placard. I know several of them.. t They really don’t care. They’re just doing their job. These clerks didn’t write the new law. That was the legislature.
I don’t get why you come off so defensive about this. Did someone challenge you in a handicap parking spot? If it’s some PTSD problem that triggers you so easily, I’m sorry for your condition. Consider counseling.
Yea, it was “legal” under Texas law for anyone with a DV plate to park in an handicap zone…until 2022. You’re splitting hairs, claiming apparently that just because something is legal, is also right. It isn’t, it wasn’t , and now it’s fixed. Too bad of you have to visit another doctor to get signed off to park in a “HANDICAP” parking spot. It must be a terrific inconvenience for an airline pilot in such poor physical condition. At least don’t embarrass the profession by wearing a uniform when you take that handicap parking space.
At this rate, no one is going to believe you anymore.
But the point remains, you are a jerk for being hostile to someone legally parking in a disabled space.
Back to the your false claims, veterans in Texas were DEFINITELY issued disabled placards based solely on their federal documents and doctor letter.
Plenty of my friends and acquaintances who got blown up have them. Now; even though they have documentation from the federal government and a doctor that they are disabled, they have to go through ANOTHER LAYER OF BUREAUCRACY to get the doctor to sign ANOTHER FORM in order to get the placard.
It’s purely bureaucratic BS to make veterans get 2 letters from doctors when civilians are only required to get 1 letter.
That’s why it was automatic. It was supposed to be one letter from a doctor. It was a streamlining of the old two-step process and it worked great. The county bureaucrats hated that it wasn’t THEIR PAPERWORK and that they had to accept the federal one. The bureaucrats fought back and now they get to reject the federal form and go back to making the veteran use THEIR PAPERWORK thus requiring TWO doctor letters.
At least you are consistent. You are wrong that veterans were not issued disabled placards based on their federal rating, and you are wrong when you confront veterans legally parking in a disabled space.
09-17-2023, 07:44 AM
#149
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,382
Yes, the policy changed for TX vets recently.
Also previously you could park in handicap spots if you simply had a DV plate, did not even need the handicap icon. Pretty sure that changed too.
Not that I think anyone with X% VA rating should be automatically entitled to rock start parking, should be based on actual disability.
There are too many frauds with blue plates as it is, no need to encourage vets to participate in that.
Also previously you could park in handicap spots if you simply had a DV plate, did not even need the handicap icon. Pretty sure that changed too.
Not that I think anyone with X% VA rating should be automatically entitled to rock start parking, should be based on actual disability.
There are too many frauds with blue plates as it is, no need to encourage vets to participate in that.
09-17-2023, 07:59 AM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,186
Yes, the policy changed for TX vets recently.
Also previously you could park in handicap spots if you simply had a DV plate, did not need to handicap icon. Pretty sure that changed too.
Not that I think anyone with X% VA rating should be automatically entitled to rock start parking, should be based on actual disability.
Also previously you could park in handicap spots if you simply had a DV plate, did not need to handicap icon. Pretty sure that changed too.
Not that I think anyone with X% VA rating should be automatically entitled to rock start parking, should be based on actual disability.
They have to fill out a second form at the county and have a second letter from a doctor.
So vets have to jump through 2 hoops while civilians only have to jump through 1.
What’s even more ridiculous is (as you point out) there are so many civilian frauds for disabled plates and placards yet the counties choose to make vets do it twice?
Imagine a vet in a wheel chair rolling up to the clerk at the county, presenting their VA disability documentation, then getting denied for disabled plates and placards.
.
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