1Seat 1Engine

The statement above makes it seem like you're talking about the average reservist, not the guy who goes on orders for a year or more.

I can tell you that where I work, 5 days a month is the absolute minimum that we will let a guy participate. He's typically got to give a lot more than that on a monthly basis. And that doesn't even begin to cover annual tour or TDY's.

Airbum

Yes he/she wasn't at either place. The problem was corrected and didn't happen again that I was aware of with anyone else.

Anyhow, to those who dont agree or do agree with me thanks for your efforts in both active and reserve duty.

reCALcitrant

The law states "voluntary" or "involuntary" so how about not reading into the law what you "think" it means or its intent and read the words. Active or inactive duty for training are also included in the wording. The intent is that your tax payer dollar can keep a reservist Mission ready for about 3 days a month and have a combat ready aviator etc. for fractions of the price of an active duty member. No airline has lost revenue because of this. BTW, if you think they have to have to hire a few more pilots because of this you are probably correct. However, all those furloughed guys are working at their respective reserve units to pay the bills while AA, United, etc are suffering through hard times. IE managers taking 40% bonuses with guys still on furlough. The key is to work hard when your at work and be smart enough to know your role. Please realize reservists are trying to maximize their revenue the same way the airline does. If you don't like how we make extra money, take a 2nd job yourself. Respect to you sir.

kronan

A little mentioned fact is that the company can ask your Mil Commander for relief on your mil leave if it is imposing a hardship on the company. Company can't say no.....but, the CO (and Reservist) should be using their communication skills and minimizing the impact on the company if possible.

And sorry, I see nothing wrong in "gaming" the system during my low earning years and doing more mil activity than I will during the high earning years. To me, gaming the system means mil leaving a trip and then not doing any mil activities----just going skiing for example. (Or using sick leave to go skiing as a delta guy did many moons ago).

Before some of you get too wrapped around the axels, I do try and schedule my mil duties around my flying. But, if the company won't let me drop a trip, I have absolutely no heartburn with playing the mil leave card. Just ups the utilization rate of the guys sitting reserve if no one else picks the trip up.....and I have yet to see one of the trips I mil leaved get picked up by a guy sitting reserve......so, I can't be hurting the company that bad by using mil leave can I?

My company "games" the contract incessantly. More and more trips are contractually legal, with min rest periods scheduled, versus the more pilot friendly trips we had pre-contract signing.

Couple of Q&A clippings from USERRA website

Q: The attorney also said that this particular unit member is taking “excessive” military leave and putting an undue burden on the employer. How much military leave is too much?

A: That question is for you to decide, not the civilian employer or the courts. As the CO, you are responsible for the readiness and the safety of your unit. It is for you (and Air Force leaders above you) to decide how much training your unit members need and how much voluntary or involuntary service they are to perform. You should try to work with employers to minimize disruption of their operations, but not at the expense of safety and readiness.

Q: When I told the unit member about the letter that I had received from her employer’s attorney, she was very angry. She told me that it was unlawful for the employer to contact me as the CO and that I should tell the employer and the attorney to “pound sand.” What do you think?

A: Contacting the CO is not unlawful and indeed is encouraged by DoD policy. Please do not tell the employer to “pound sand.” You should meet with the attorney and/or the employer and explain why it is necessary for this unit member to participate in AFTPs and other service. The idea here is to promote good employer-employee relations and to gain the employer’s voluntary cooperation, if possible.

If there is a way for you (as the CO) to schedule her AFTPs and other training in such a way as to minimize the disruption of the employer’s operations, without detracting from readiness, safety, and mission accomplishment, you should do that. If, however, there is an unavoidable conflict between the needs of the Air Force and the needs of the civilian employer, the needs of the Air Force must prevail.

Garryowen

My original question was not about mil leave here and there to supplement airline income. I think that it's clear cut as long as one doesn't drop leave to go skiing like kronan mentioned.

My question was about something I heard through the grapevine. May be complete BS but I heard that CAL fired a guy for dropping mil leave in training. Stating applicant lied about his / her availability date. I'm sure something like this would go into litigation(?) by the union or the courts. Maybe he dropped 1 year or 5 year orders on them and they decided he had intended to do that all along. Don't know, just curious if anyone had any first or second hand knowledge of a similar scenario. Good stuff so far...thanks for posting.

My understanding of the "laws" is that one can volunteer and go away for up to 5 years voluntary (active duty for example), and that involuntary (deployment) time doesn't count towards the 5 years. So if this is true I suppose it wouldn't be an issue if one was not on probation (can fire with "no cause") or in training.

1Seat 1Engine

I think there's a big difference between probation and training.

I have never heard of anyone taking mil leave in training and it wouldn't suprise me if the company had some recourse in that case.

Probation on the other hand is still protected by Userra. They might be able to fire you for no reason...as long as the government doesn't think it's because you were a reservist/guardsman. I don't think ANY airline wants to get anywhere close to that line.

My experience is that initial training pretty much trumps everything, but probation doesn't.

I also think that as long as you were abiding by the letter of the law (USERRA), you're very good shape. I don't remember ever hearing of an airline fire a guy for mil leave that was IAW USERRA.

Slice

There was a USNR pilot who got some crap from SWA and fired last year. He now works for SWA again from what I've heard. It seemed to stay pretty quiet and no company wants that kind of news going around with all that's happening in the world today. It's in their best interest to suck it up. It's part of running an airline.

1Seat 1Engine

I talked to a SWA chief pilot about that exact situation. The company's position was that it had nothing to do with him being a reservist and everything to do with his attitude.

That was before he was "re-hired". I don't know what happened to get him back on the team.

Slice

According to my SWA bud, his trip evals by his Capt's (apparently required when on probation) showed nothing wrong and no attitude. Hence, he got his job back. If the guy was a sh*tbag my friend would have said so. What position did you expect mgmt to take?

1Seat 1Engine

That's why I mentioned the source, so you could take it for what it's worth.

I've asked around a lot about this specific case and haven't been able to get many details about it. The only things I heard that weren't rumor or heresay were from the CP.