CWHCFI

If you sign a contract saying you will pay then you leave the company and do not pay you have gone back in your word. It is a matter of integrity.

bnkangle

Oh Lord. What about when a company files CH. 11 to shed obligations. Is that unethical?

CWHCFI

Integrity is not based on what others do.

Out Of Trim

With 26 years of experience in presenting cases in Federal court and an MBA in Aviation Mgt., yeah I know a little more than your 8th grade friends pal. Nevertheless, it doesn't take a genius to know that keeping a promise is what's right.

Out Of Trim

If people want to quit this job, or any other, at any time, that's fine. But, if they sign a training contract that specifies repayment if they leave within a year, then that's what they should be held to. Frankly, I can't even believe that another Mesa pilot would have it any other way. That money that they're running away with, at least some of it, could have been yours. This is not just an ideological point, it's actually an economic one. When they steal from the company (lets call it what is is) that leaves less money that could have been paid out to us pilots.

whyvee

Presenting cases in federal in what capacity? Your posts, especially on this topic, make me highly skeptical of your knowledge and education.

Out Of Trim

That's fine.

No Land 3

Don't burn bridges, leave on good terms. Lets say you make a move, and fail miserably? No one else wants to hire you, except Mesa? I left on good terms, did everything I said I would, just in case I needed to come back. Don't laugh, it happened to quite a few people I know.
In this industry, you need to hedge your bets, practice risk management, and keep a low profile.
Besides all that, be some one of integrity, admit your mistakes no matter how embarrassing, and deal with it.

WisJudge

With your 26 years of Federal Court experience I applaud you! I am humbled by your vast legal experience. My simple questions seemed to strike a nerve, my apologies. That was not the expected response from someone with your background.

Someone with your practical knowledge and understanding of the courts knows a contract is not a contract unless it is legally enforceable. In those 26 years certainly you have sought relief from the courts regarding the enforceability of a mutually agreed upon document (contract) where one side perceived a failure of the other side to deliver on a promise, financial or otherwise.

When a fellow pilot was looking for advice as to his being sued, you seemed to take umbrage with him and my recommendation that he seek legal counsel. With your experience in such matters, and on a Federal level no less, and for 26 years, did you not once employ additional legal firepower? Or, are you personally knowledgable in all aspects of the legal process, disciplines and procedure that you were able to effectively combat an opponent singlehandedly and sway the court in your favor?

I feel almost foolish in stating this since you are so well versed, but for the others:
A West Law search regarding contracts and contract enforceability will tell you more than you probably ever wanted to know about contracts. It’s really dry stuff. Important, but really, really dry.
From personal experience, contracts are complicated and mean different things to different people, different courts, and in different states.
Contract law is one of the most convoluted and tangled I have had to deal with. Municipal and criminal law was easy compared to contracts.
Courts, depending on the state, can view the very same contract as anywhere from enforceable to void.
Think of it this way: Marry labor law to contracts, multiply that by the 50 states, multiply that again by Federal law, and for good measure we’ll throw in the flavor of a presiding judge. The result, often a tangled mess. But that is the sausage making of our Republic.

That does not condone a taking of bonus money with the intent to defraud.
Does a “training” contract fit a court’s standard of a lawful contract where the employer desires your services, requires certain training of you, then puts the cost of that training 100% on the employee. My guess is that differs depending on the state and court the case is tried in. I don’t know for sure, hence seeking competent legal advice.

Back to the original post that fanned indignation:
If one is being sued or being threatened with a lawsuit and the matter centers around a contract, especially a labor related contract, my personal advice is for that person to seek competent legal counsel. Especially an attorney well versed in contract law, preferably as it relates to labor law in your state. Follow their advice and measure the costs of submitting or fighting. After you know the facts and where you stand it then becomes to an economic decision. Is fighting this worth your time, emotional energy and financial cost to pursue?

Hey, and BACK OFF!!! I like Dave Ramsey!!

Happy July 4th to ALL!
"I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated, by succeeding Generations, as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance by solemn Acts of Devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with Pomp and Parade, with Shews, Games, Sports, Guns, Bells, Bonfires and Illuminations from one End of this Continent to the other from this Time forward forever more.”
John Adams, (In a letter to his wife) Philadelphia, 1776

whyvee

Thank you for a lucid and competent post.