Mesa 3.0
06-13-2017, 07:09 AM
#4251
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
The last corrections are being made as we type and as soon as they are done we will be posting it for everyone to read, including a summary of changes etc.
We have committed to the MEC that the full language will be posted by tomorrow at 1200 noon ET.
06-13-2017, 07:36 AM
#4253
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 21
To the mag negotiatiors what did you give up? Mesa has moved us, closed bases, and largely left work rules the same. Yet we can't get 1 more day off, we can't get a minimum 3 day off between trips. A fitness center in a hotel is a preferred requirement? You can only pick up things on reserve if they match your days on reserve? That's idiotic. You had the power for change, the time is now to implement it. While we thank you for the things you got, with the marginal pay rate change it's not enough. There are pages and pages that read "preferred, at company discretion, the company will try, etc."
It lets the company reassign you within your footprint with no control.
The hotel language is strong until it then says the company will try.
This will be voted down in my estimate 70/30. It's a good foundation but needs to be improved on. Stop giving concessions. This isn't a concessionary contract. Two years ago Mesa said that was the time for a concessionary one and then in two years they'd be able to really hit a home run. But two years later and there is a new crisis on the horizon. Mesa will always manufacture a crisis.
I know you guys mean well, but you haven't been here through several contracts like myself or my compatriots. It's the same story every time. Then management will say, oh but on the next one we'll really make it right.
Finally, I think you might could get away with the language if the pay started on the 3rd year of this proposed deal. But it doesn't.
It lets the company reassign you within your footprint with no control.
The hotel language is strong until it then says the company will try.
This will be voted down in my estimate 70/30. It's a good foundation but needs to be improved on. Stop giving concessions. This isn't a concessionary contract. Two years ago Mesa said that was the time for a concessionary one and then in two years they'd be able to really hit a home run. But two years later and there is a new crisis on the horizon. Mesa will always manufacture a crisis.
I know you guys mean well, but you haven't been here through several contracts like myself or my compatriots. It's the same story every time. Then management will say, oh but on the next one we'll really make it right.
Finally, I think you might could get away with the language if the pay started on the 3rd year of this proposed deal. But it doesn't.
06-13-2017, 08:06 AM
#4254
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 88
To the mag negotiatiors what did you give up? Mesa has moved us, closed bases, and largely left work rules the same. Yet we can't get 1 more day off, we can't get a minimum 3 day off between trips. A fitness center in a hotel is a preferred requirement? You can only pick up things on reserve if they match your days on reserve? That's idiotic. You had the power for change, the time is now to implement it. While we thank you for the things you got, with the marginal pay rate change it's not enough. There are pages and pages that read "preferred, at company discretion, the company will try, etc."
It lets the company reassign you within your footprint with no control.
The hotel language is strong until it then says the company will try.
This will be voted down in my estimate 70/30. It's a good foundation but needs to be improved on. Stop giving concessions. This isn't a concessionary contract. Two years ago Mesa said that was the time for a concessionary one and then in two years they'd be able to really hit a home run. But two years later and there is a new crisis on the horizon. Mesa will always manufacture a crisis.
I know you guys mean well, but you haven't been here through several contracts like myself or my compatriots. It's the same story every time. Then management will say, oh but on the next one we'll really make it right.
Finally, I think you might could get away with the language if the pay started on the 3rd year of this proposed deal. But it doesn't.
It lets the company reassign you within your footprint with no control.
The hotel language is strong until it then says the company will try.
This will be voted down in my estimate 70/30. It's a good foundation but needs to be improved on. Stop giving concessions. This isn't a concessionary contract. Two years ago Mesa said that was the time for a concessionary one and then in two years they'd be able to really hit a home run. But two years later and there is a new crisis on the horizon. Mesa will always manufacture a crisis.
I know you guys mean well, but you haven't been here through several contracts like myself or my compatriots. It's the same story every time. Then management will say, oh but on the next one we'll really make it right.
Finally, I think you might could get away with the language if the pay started on the 3rd year of this proposed deal. But it doesn't.
06-13-2017, 08:34 AM
#4255
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
What he said! Years ago the flag was being waved for an additional day off. This IMO is a big deal. What happened that kept this important item off the negotiators agenda? Month after month we see these 30 plus hour over nights. Two extra hours being trapped in some city, not worth it. It seems to me the pilot group has been let down again.
The 12 days off came with a very large price tag so based on the polling data we ultimately made the decision to prioritize other areas.
We always knew that this TA wasn't going to be perfect, but like an earlier poster said "It is a good foundation" and we agree. However, if we don't solidify the foundation we will never have the opportunity to continue building and we will continue to fall behind.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
06-13-2017, 08:37 AM
#4256
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 21
The fact of negotiations is that everything has a cost associated with it and everything is a give and take. This time around, we believe we gained as much as we possibly could and in a way that aligned with the priorities of our pilot group.
The 12 days off came with a very large price tag so based on the polling data we ultimately made the decision to prioritize other areas.
We always knew that this TA wasn't going to be perfect, but like an earlier poster said "It is a good foundation" and we agree. However, if we don't solidify the foundation we will never have the opportunity to continue building and we will continue to fall behind.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
The 12 days off came with a very large price tag so based on the polling data we ultimately made the decision to prioritize other areas.
We always knew that this TA wasn't going to be perfect, but like an earlier poster said "It is a good foundation" and we agree. However, if we don't solidify the foundation we will never have the opportunity to continue building and we will continue to fall behind.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
No it wasn't and neither was Republics contract. They voted 3 down before the last one, the whole time Republic crying they don't have money. Now it's the best place to work.
06-13-2017, 08:48 AM
#4258
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Position: Freight 75/76 FO
Posts: 140
Based on what I see here, I have to say: not bad, I expected worst from J.O. to be honest. However, it still doesn't feel right. 100% deadhead pay, and some sort of minimum day or duty rig would have made me happy.
Also, I have noticed that some people here with apparent inside info are hinting at some funny language issues, I will also pay close attention to that since I think thats where the company trick is. I apologize for making this assumption before having the TA in my hands, but somebody please give me a good reason of why should I expect something different from Mesa and J.O.
This is just my preliminary opinion based on what I have seen here. I will take my time to read the TA and make my decision.
Also, I have noticed that some people here with apparent inside info are hinting at some funny language issues, I will also pay close attention to that since I think thats where the company trick is. I apologize for making this assumption before having the TA in my hands, but somebody please give me a good reason of why should I expect something different from Mesa and J.O.
This is just my preliminary opinion based on what I have seen here. I will take my time to read the TA and make my decision.
06-13-2017, 08:56 AM
#4259
Living the Dream
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,795
MAGNegotiations, thank you very much for coming here and taking the time to answer questions. Polls are fine, and my reps have been generally good about responding to emails, but nothing comes close to the honest, anonymous discussions we're able to have here. I think this forum is a pretty good pulse on the pilot group's real thoughts.
Thank you very much for all your efforts and energies you've put into negotiations. While I know where you're coming from with DOS+2 FO rates, I don't think I could in good conscience vote for a B-scale, particularly when JO now has apparent free reign to give whatever new hire bonuses he wants whenever he wants.
But here is my actual question: If the TA does not pass, do we go back to mediation right away or is the whole process restarted?
Thank you very much for all your efforts and energies you've put into negotiations. While I know where you're coming from with DOS+2 FO rates, I don't think I could in good conscience vote for a B-scale, particularly when JO now has apparent free reign to give whatever new hire bonuses he wants whenever he wants.
But here is my actual question: If the TA does not pass, do we go back to mediation right away or is the whole process restarted?
Last edited by deltajuliet; 06-13-2017 at 09:09 AM.
06-13-2017, 09:05 AM
#4260
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 38
MAGNegotiations, thank you very much for coming here and taking the time to answer questions. Polls are fine, and my reps have been generally good about responding to emails, but nothing comes close to the honest, anonymous discussions we're able to have here. I think this forum is a pretty good pulse on the pilot group's real thoughts.
Thank you very much for all your efforts and energies you've put into negotiations. While I know where you're coming from with DOS+2 FO rates, I don't think I could in conscience vote for a B-scale, particularly when JO now has apparent free reign to give whatever new hire bonuses he wants whenever he wants.
But here is my actual question: If the TA does not pass, do we go back to mediation right away or is the whole process restarted?
Thank you very much for all your efforts and energies you've put into negotiations. While I know where you're coming from with DOS+2 FO rates, I don't think I could in conscience vote for a B-scale, particularly when JO now has apparent free reign to give whatever new hire bonuses he wants whenever he wants.
But here is my actual question: If the TA does not pass, do we go back to mediation right away or is the whole process restarted?
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