Mesa 3.0
03-19-2017, 06:03 AM
#3131
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 90
This whole thing really makes me very suspicious. The union seems to be doing the right thing for the pilots. But it just doesn't add up. Why the sudden change? The union has always been hard on the company side.
I still believe this could be some sort of bizarre company/union plot to give pilots some hope that we are moving in the right direction to an eventual strike, industry leading contract, and all that... False hope is cheaper than giving retention bonuses to everyone.
I could be proven wrong, but I don't think anything will come out of all this. All this union, NMB, etc... is just bureaucratic BS, and quite irrelevant in my opinion. Market forces is what will ultimately dictate whether we get a decent contract or not. And frankly, the most logical outcome based on the current situation (daily desperate emails asking us to work on days off) in my opinion, is a company shrinkage in the near future if the cancellations continue. Like someone already said, if the company was willing to give us a decent contract, they would have done that already.
We all know J.O. and with his actions he makes it clear that he will not invest in labor. At this point this might just even be a pride thing. J.O. gets a rush every time he creates a dollar not by revenue and clever management, but by squeezing it out his workers, he thinks he is being successful by doing that. It's just the way he is, the way he grew up, his values. Telling J.O. to invest in labor is like telling a Christian or a Muslim to not believe in God or Allah. Other CEOs in the industry have a different approach, they invest in labor. Not because they care about us pilots and our families, but because they understand that in the end they need people to fly the planes and make money. Not J.O.'s case.
I still believe this could be some sort of bizarre company/union plot to give pilots some hope that we are moving in the right direction to an eventual strike, industry leading contract, and all that... False hope is cheaper than giving retention bonuses to everyone.
I could be proven wrong, but I don't think anything will come out of all this. All this union, NMB, etc... is just bureaucratic BS, and quite irrelevant in my opinion. Market forces is what will ultimately dictate whether we get a decent contract or not. And frankly, the most logical outcome based on the current situation (daily desperate emails asking us to work on days off) in my opinion, is a company shrinkage in the near future if the cancellations continue. Like someone already said, if the company was willing to give us a decent contract, they would have done that already.
We all know J.O. and with his actions he makes it clear that he will not invest in labor. At this point this might just even be a pride thing. J.O. gets a rush every time he creates a dollar not by revenue and clever management, but by squeezing it out his workers, he thinks he is being successful by doing that. It's just the way he is, the way he grew up, his values. Telling J.O. to invest in labor is like telling a Christian or a Muslim to not believe in God or Allah. Other CEOs in the industry have a different approach, they invest in labor. Not because they care about us pilots and our families, but because they understand that in the end they need people to fly the planes and make money. Not J.O.'s case.
Everyone needs to start making exit plans NOW.
03-19-2017, 06:20 AM
#3132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Position: Freight 75/76 FO
Posts: 140
Agree with you 100%. However I think we have some new people in the union that are trying to work for us. I know the current head of the negotiating committee and he is a decent guy, trying to look out for us...against all odds. Having said that it does boil down to market forces. Its going to get ugly here soon. Forced JA, cancelling, vacations, etc. The company is going to take a hard stand to try and crew flights. Seen this movie before and its not a happy ending. Everyone needs to start making exit plans NOW.
Everyone needs to start making exit plans NOW.
.So like you said, it is definitely going to get ugly.
03-19-2017, 06:46 AM
#3133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: ????
Posts: 579
If I feel the burning need to come in and fly on my day off (which hasn't happened yet) I would go to the trade board and pick up from someone who is trying to drop a trip. But, the problem with that is the person whose trip you picked up could turn around and pick up some 200% flying. Also if they call me on my day off I just tell them that my wife is out of town for several days and I have the kids. What are they going to do? Also if they call me on my last turn I tell them I have to pick my kids up at day care and wife is going out of town for several days. They don't know if you have kids or how many. What are they going to say? I had no idea these kids would come in so handy!😜
03-19-2017, 06:47 AM
#3134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: DFW CRJ CA
Posts: 340
You're about to see me doing so steer clear of, get into the politics.
For months you've all said "do more. We want to picket, why haven't we filed for mediation yet. STRIKE".
So what happens. The MEC sets up picketing. Immediately after, you all start going. "What's the point in picketing, who are we aiming this at? It's not going to change anything."
Now the MEC moves forward with mediation. You all start going "What's the point, mediation will drag this out forever and nothing will come of it".
Seriously, pick a freaking side. First, you say the MEC isn't doing enough, and now when they DO WHAT YOU ASK THEM TO DO. You start *****ing about that too.
Reading here it's obvious that most on here do not understand a) how unions work. b) how negotiations work and c) and MOST IMPORTANTLY how the Railway Labor Act works.
I've been at Mesa for 15+ years (trust me, trying to get out). Been involved with the union in one way, shape or form for close to 10. I've been here for company friendly union and company militant union (where they were barred from corporate). In the end, both unions worked for the pilots. In all instances, the one common was the company and how they dealt with everything.
Your MEC is not your enemy. They are not "in bed with the company". It's not a failure of the negotiators to gain what you think we deserve. You cannot achieve something when the other side says that topic is a non-starter.
You want something to get better at Mesa, we need this pilot group to stop thinking of only themselves and thing as a group. Do what's best for the group. I see it every month, you’re not in this as a group. You’re in it as a bunch of whiny individuals who that think they deserve a level of special treatment that doesn't exist and that you haven't earned.
Less than 10% of DFW voted during the last LEC elections. It takes 30 seconds to log into a website and click a checkbox, but 90% of our pilots couldn't be bothered. You want to know why picketing and strike votes and stuff haven't happened? This, this right here. I can't tell you the number of pilots that told the MEC "I'm not coming out on my day off" during the 2 picketing events. I can just image the turnout if we ever got to the point where there was a strike.
You want to make things better at Mesa. Step back and look at what you the individual pilot is doing for the group dynamic. Get educated on the ACTUAL process and not just what you think it is. Get involved. And finally, stop blaming the people who volunteered and are actually trying. A good chunk of us hold multiple positions in the union because a) we care and want to help and b) because YOU won't step up.
/rant over
For months you've all said "do more. We want to picket, why haven't we filed for mediation yet. STRIKE".
So what happens. The MEC sets up picketing. Immediately after, you all start going. "What's the point in picketing, who are we aiming this at? It's not going to change anything."
Now the MEC moves forward with mediation. You all start going "What's the point, mediation will drag this out forever and nothing will come of it".
Seriously, pick a freaking side. First, you say the MEC isn't doing enough, and now when they DO WHAT YOU ASK THEM TO DO. You start *****ing about that too.
Reading here it's obvious that most on here do not understand a) how unions work. b) how negotiations work and c) and MOST IMPORTANTLY how the Railway Labor Act works.
I've been at Mesa for 15+ years (trust me, trying to get out). Been involved with the union in one way, shape or form for close to 10. I've been here for company friendly union and company militant union (where they were barred from corporate). In the end, both unions worked for the pilots. In all instances, the one common was the company and how they dealt with everything.
Your MEC is not your enemy. They are not "in bed with the company". It's not a failure of the negotiators to gain what you think we deserve. You cannot achieve something when the other side says that topic is a non-starter.
You want something to get better at Mesa, we need this pilot group to stop thinking of only themselves and thing as a group. Do what's best for the group. I see it every month, you’re not in this as a group. You’re in it as a bunch of whiny individuals who that think they deserve a level of special treatment that doesn't exist and that you haven't earned.
Less than 10% of DFW voted during the last LEC elections. It takes 30 seconds to log into a website and click a checkbox, but 90% of our pilots couldn't be bothered. You want to know why picketing and strike votes and stuff haven't happened? This, this right here. I can't tell you the number of pilots that told the MEC "I'm not coming out on my day off" during the 2 picketing events. I can just image the turnout if we ever got to the point where there was a strike.
You want to make things better at Mesa. Step back and look at what you the individual pilot is doing for the group dynamic. Get educated on the ACTUAL process and not just what you think it is. Get involved. And finally, stop blaming the people who volunteered and are actually trying. A good chunk of us hold multiple positions in the union because a) we care and want to help and b) because YOU won't step up.
/rant over
03-19-2017, 07:49 AM
#3135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 580
You're about to see me doing so steer clear of, get into the politics.
For months you've all said "do more. We want to picket, why haven't we filed for mediation yet. STRIKE".
So what happens. The MEC sets up picketing. Immediately after, you all start going. "What's the point in picketing, who are we aiming this at? It's not going to change anything."
Now the MEC moves forward with mediation. You all start going "What's the point, mediation will drag this out forever and nothing will come of it".
Seriously, pick a freaking side. First, you say the MEC isn't doing enough, and now when they DO WHAT YOU ASK THEM TO DO. You start *****ing about that too.
Reading here it's obvious that most on here do not understand a) how unions work. b) how negotiations work and c) and MOST IMPORTANTLY how the Railway Labor Act works.
I've been at Mesa for 15+ years (trust me, trying to get out). Been involved with the union in one way, shape or form for close to 10. I've been here for company friendly union and company militant union (where they were barred from corporate). In the end, both unions worked for the pilots. In all instances, the one common was the company and how they dealt with everything.
Your MEC is not your enemy. They are not "in bed with the company". It's not a failure of the negotiators to gain what you think we deserve. You cannot achieve something when the other side says that topic is a non-starter.
You want something to get better at Mesa, we need this pilot group to stop thinking of only themselves and thing as a group. Do what's best for the group. I see it every month, you’re not in this as a group. You’re in it as a bunch of whiny individuals who that think they deserve a level of special treatment that doesn't exist and that you haven't earned.
Less than 10% of DFW voted during the last LEC elections. It takes 30 seconds to log into a website and click a checkbox, but 90% of our pilots couldn't be bothered. You want to know why picketing and strike votes and stuff haven't happened? This, this right here. I can't tell you the number of pilots that told the MEC "I'm not coming out on my day off" during the 2 picketing events. I can just image the turnout if we ever got to the point where there was a strike.
You want to make things better at Mesa. Step back and look at what you the individual pilot is doing for the group dynamic. Get educated on the ACTUAL process and not just what you think it is. Get involved. And finally, stop blaming the people who volunteered and are actually trying. A good chunk of us hold multiple positions in the union because a) we care and want to help and b) because YOU won't step up.
/rant over
For months you've all said "do more. We want to picket, why haven't we filed for mediation yet. STRIKE".
So what happens. The MEC sets up picketing. Immediately after, you all start going. "What's the point in picketing, who are we aiming this at? It's not going to change anything."
Now the MEC moves forward with mediation. You all start going "What's the point, mediation will drag this out forever and nothing will come of it".
Seriously, pick a freaking side. First, you say the MEC isn't doing enough, and now when they DO WHAT YOU ASK THEM TO DO. You start *****ing about that too.
Reading here it's obvious that most on here do not understand a) how unions work. b) how negotiations work and c) and MOST IMPORTANTLY how the Railway Labor Act works.
I've been at Mesa for 15+ years (trust me, trying to get out). Been involved with the union in one way, shape or form for close to 10. I've been here for company friendly union and company militant union (where they were barred from corporate). In the end, both unions worked for the pilots. In all instances, the one common was the company and how they dealt with everything.
Your MEC is not your enemy. They are not "in bed with the company". It's not a failure of the negotiators to gain what you think we deserve. You cannot achieve something when the other side says that topic is a non-starter.
You want something to get better at Mesa, we need this pilot group to stop thinking of only themselves and thing as a group. Do what's best for the group. I see it every month, you’re not in this as a group. You’re in it as a bunch of whiny individuals who that think they deserve a level of special treatment that doesn't exist and that you haven't earned.
Less than 10% of DFW voted during the last LEC elections. It takes 30 seconds to log into a website and click a checkbox, but 90% of our pilots couldn't be bothered. You want to know why picketing and strike votes and stuff haven't happened? This, this right here. I can't tell you the number of pilots that told the MEC "I'm not coming out on my day off" during the 2 picketing events. I can just image the turnout if we ever got to the point where there was a strike.
You want to make things better at Mesa. Step back and look at what you the individual pilot is doing for the group dynamic. Get educated on the ACTUAL process and not just what you think it is. Get involved. And finally, stop blaming the people who volunteered and are actually trying. A good chunk of us hold multiple positions in the union because a) we care and want to help and b) because YOU won't step up.
/rant over
I too have volunteered since the first day after probation to make this a better work environment for my peers. I constantly educate, appreciate, and recruit more pilots to be on the side of ALPA and our LEC/MEC. You can't be in the middle of this fight you have to take sides.
In
You can't win a game or a fight sitting in the stands or on a sideline you've got to be in IT! Less complaining and whining and more involvement.
03-19-2017, 08:42 AM
#3136
Living the Dream
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,795
Hear hear, MagPBS. I know it must be frustrating from your end and for a lot of the other union volunteers too. Thank you for all the time and work you put into the job, and for being honest and direct right now. I'm glad we're on to mediation and think the union is making all the right moves now; I'm just amazed at the company's blindness to the cliff they're hurdling towards.
Any pickets in Phoenix coming up?
Any pickets in Phoenix coming up?
03-19-2017, 08:47 AM
#3137
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Theres a huge difference between "trying to get out", and "trying to get out to one of the big three". The former is a wiser choice and doesn't mean a paycut or lateral move, in my opinion. If you insist on the later, you ought to listen to PBS, because you will be at Mesa for a while.
03-19-2017, 09:05 AM
#3138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 699
There really can't be a lateral move for Mesa employees. Everything is a step up.
Mesa pilots are picking up open time for 200%. So, they are getting 200% of $22/hr? So $44/hr?!?! That is what you should be making anyways!
If you leave and go to any of the WO, you would get about $40/hr anytime that you work. Plus better benefits and much cheaper health insurance. Plus, if you do work extra, you would get additional pay ON TOP of $40/hr.
Not to mention at least $15k in new hire bonuses the first year, and $10k in retention bonuses per year in year 2 and 3. Plus profit sharing.
Mesa pilots are picking up open time for 200%. So, they are getting 200% of $22/hr? So $44/hr?!?! That is what you should be making anyways!
If you leave and go to any of the WO, you would get about $40/hr anytime that you work. Plus better benefits and much cheaper health insurance. Plus, if you do work extra, you would get additional pay ON TOP of $40/hr.
Not to mention at least $15k in new hire bonuses the first year, and $10k in retention bonuses per year in year 2 and 3. Plus profit sharing.
03-19-2017, 09:19 AM
#3139
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
If JO were serious about getting a contract he would have given us a decent contract NOW. Not the POS he just peddled. It is business as usual at Mesa, the stall tactic is alive, the one we've been seeing for the last six years. Get ready for more JA's and cracking down on sick calls and free trips to PHX to answer for them. It's about to get very real. I think IAH is about to see a mass exodus, myself included.
03-19-2017, 09:28 AM
#3140
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: Airbus Pilot
Posts: 246
You should really read carefully at what I am saying. I am no expert like you think but mediation does work the way I think it does. Slow. My airline is in mediation now. If you further read what I am talking about you may finally understand that I am saying JO will need a TA really soon like in 3 months or you will be in deep cancel mode. Vacations, flights, JRA's etc. as well. I spent almost 14 years at Mesa. I have seen JO's tactics and garbage. I was at Mesa when they almost went under in 2008 but age 65 saved the day. I was also around for the last two TA's to pass. Each time it was some excuse that you will get more later. Never happened. Now is your best chance. I also see it more clearly now that I am on the outside looking in. Foley is just a ploy bringing him back to scare you. So before you try going after me why don't you try to understand what I am saying first. Try to realize I am on your side. So why attack me???
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