LostMedic

There is one thing I learned growing up in a union family. You don't cross a picket line and expect to come out unscathed. When my fathers Union struck, management locked themselves in the building and the pizza guy would not cross without permission. He had to pick up some part time work to support us, but by-G-D he was not going to cross. It is unfortunate that some people are labeled incorrectly, but be careful around those that will sell you down the river for their own personal gain at the expense of their fellow workers. We you sell your morals what else are you willing to sell? Just a word of warning. I will go flip burgers before crossing, and I would expect any self respecting pilot to do the same.

Sennant

Before we turn the whole freedom issue into sunshine and rainbows let's remember the whole process cost this group dearly. The contract we had to take just to secure the scope we have set us way back. While there are extenuating issues for the junior fo's that were there. There's no excuses for anyone that was a Captain there. Yes the list just has names of everyone that worked freedom when it was reclaimed, but that list exists for a reason.

NovemberBravo

Where's the list?

deltajuliet

PM'd you, and happy to PM anyone else who'd like it.

For those unfamiliar, MAG management created Freedom in 2002 to work around the pesky Mesa pilots as they negotiated for a better contract. Why bother with that when you can just transfer CRJ's from one subsidiary to another non-Union one? Mesa crews started showing up to the airport to find a Freedom crew already there boarding their airplane; suddenly it was now a flight operated by Freedom. And there was no cancellation pay for the Mesa crew. Flying was being stolen literally right in front of them. It was to a point that Mesa was in very real danger of no longer existing as Freedom grew and grew, screwing every pilot on the Mesa seniority list royally.

The only obstacle for management was getting pilots for this new operation, and it was immediately obvious to every pilot at Mesa that going there would be a very bad thing. If everyone said no to switching, it would've stopped management dead in their tracks.

But there are always those just looking out for #1, sadly, and it was enough for an initial cadre. A few senior Captains went over for big bonuses (I've heard around $30,000, but can't verify that), others for boosted pay rates (of course no future pilots would get those pay rates). Junior Captains and FO's jumped over to suddenly increase their relative seniority tenfold. Now a 3-year FO was walking onto a Freedom flight with 4 bars on his shoulders as a 12-year Mesa Captain lost his 4-day.

Needless to say our negotiating position for that contract was decimated, and what's more the contract we secured several years later that included the scope language that killed Freedom was a lucky fluke, and even then the rest of the contract was **** poor to get that language. Essentially, no other improvements could be made, so because of this whole Freedom fiasco we're 1-2 contracts behind every other regional. That's how Mesa got to be what it is today.

All those Freedom A Listers? The guys who knowingly back stabbed every other Mesa pilot for money and career progression? They now fill the ranks of management pilots and check airmen.

Sickening.

I wasn't here, but these are the pieces I've put together asking around. If anything is inaccurate, please feel free to correct and add.

BeatNavy

There are at least a couple "good guys" on that list, a couple of whom I flew with. Never forget how they screwed the rest of the pilots at Mesa, then, now, and in the future. Good people do bad things when it comes to self preservation and promotion. Just remember, as they enjoy 20% CKA override and management pay, you enjoy your subpar wages, thanks in large part to their work. I don't care how cool they are to fly with, how much you learned from them, etc., never forget their spineless, union busting history, unless you don't care about the professional pilot industry.

BeatNavy

I have the list and have had the explanation, but someone needs to clarify the difference between Freedom A listers and B listers for those who aren't familiar. And I'm hoping Sennant can clarify why some of those A listers (or JG or whoever that guy in question is) are mislabeled as bad but aren't true A listers. My understanding is those who were hired into Freedom who either didn't know any better or didn't have a choice fell on the B list, hence the difference between Union busters and guys who didn't knowingly screw Union pilots under the same umbrella. The way a bunch of the senior Mesa guys I used to fly with explained it, there are no good freedom A listers. All are guilty. The B listers are ok and no stink was raised because they were hired or forced into it. Why even have an A list if some are okay and some are not? Why didn't they make a separate "bad" list if some of the A listers are okay?

deltajuliet

As always, appreciate your input. And it is an important distinction.

Freedom A Listers - the guys described in the earlier post who transferred from Mesa to Freedom and formed the initial cadre that allowed it to proliferate. They did it for personal gain and screwed everyone else.

B Listers - once the initial cadre was formed, Pandora's Box was opened and there wasn't much anyone could do to stop it. Guys who had been applying to Mesa were told it was no longer hiring, but a new subsidiary called Freedom was. People going to the Mesa Airline Pilot Development Program (MAPD aka MPD), a flight school owned by MAG, no longer had guaranteed interviews with Mesa but suddenly did with Freedom. Guys like this became known as B Listers. It wasn't really their fault, they didn't create the monster, they didn't try to stab anyone in the back, and it's long been the consensus that they're pretty much blameless.

BeatNavy

That's how I always understood it. So how is Sennant saying some A listers, i.e. JG, are not Union busters and had no choice? If JG was a newhire after it happened, why isn't he on the B list then as opposed to the A list?

deltajuliet

Good question. I don't know his situation specifically, others would be more qualified to answer. But there seems to be a reasonable doubt raised. I checked out his hire date, and it was right around when Freedom began operating. While ambiguous, it's possible he was one of the very first street hires, but because of that high seniority he erroneously got mixed in with the real A Listers a few months later when somebody created "the list." Or maybe he's guilty. I don't know. At least he's making an effort to talk with people who've taken issue; I would hate for someone to lose out on a great job because of a mistake.

mjpilot

Can they be recognized by their weird seniority number?