Mesa 3.0
07-01-2016, 03:48 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,602
It's hard for me to believe that they they can't build better more efficient lines for the pilots even with AAG. It looks to me that they try to keep everyone as close to 75 hours/month and 11 days off as they can. Now they are short and need us to help them. I would be more inclined to help if I had more than 11 days off. I've talked to other pilots at other regionals that use PBS and they get their schedules much, much quicker than we do. I've heard within a couple of hours. Why does it take 6 days to get our schedules? I've heard that they run the schedule multiple times to manipulate different parameters to get the results they want. I've also heard that the company that wrote the software that Mesa scheduling uses has told them that they are not using the software in the way it was designed. That the software was not written to be used the way they are using it. Magpbs chime in and enlighten us.
07-01-2016, 04:18 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: DFW CRJ CA
Posts: 340
A lot of this was answered in a detailed post in the now closed thread. I'll recap.
First off, stop believing everything you hear from people who claim to know anything. Most of the time they're wrong.
1. Pairings are not crap just to keep you at 75 hours. It's all about crew staging for overnights. Just look at UA vs AA. Pairing are built the same way.
2. Delta, Jet Blue, Air Canada, Envoy FA's, Alaska FA's and soon to be American pilots all use NavTech pbs. And NONE of them Get their results in 6 hours. Don't compare us to Skywest. Different software with totally different award methods. navTech is pilot centric. Theirs is global solution.
3. Pretty much everyone listed above have dedicated planners just for pbs. Ours do EVERYTHING.
4. Remember that with both pairings and pbs there is an alpa person doing the same work right next to the planners. While I cannot outright veto something, I will say after years of doing this my opinion on pbs runs carries weight with them. Same goes with our pairing people.
5. With regards to pairings. There's a hotline from about 2 years ago where we had the guy who wrote the optimizer attempt AA pairings. And he got the same productivity. It's not a company conspiracy.
6. We are not "using it wrong" according the NavTech.
Did I miss any of the "I've heards"?
First off, stop believing everything you hear from people who claim to know anything. Most of the time they're wrong.
1. Pairings are not crap just to keep you at 75 hours. It's all about crew staging for overnights. Just look at UA vs AA. Pairing are built the same way.
2. Delta, Jet Blue, Air Canada, Envoy FA's, Alaska FA's and soon to be American pilots all use NavTech pbs. And NONE of them Get their results in 6 hours. Don't compare us to Skywest. Different software with totally different award methods. navTech is pilot centric. Theirs is global solution.
3. Pretty much everyone listed above have dedicated planners just for pbs. Ours do EVERYTHING.
4. Remember that with both pairings and pbs there is an alpa person doing the same work right next to the planners. While I cannot outright veto something, I will say after years of doing this my opinion on pbs runs carries weight with them. Same goes with our pairing people.
5. With regards to pairings. There's a hotline from about 2 years ago where we had the guy who wrote the optimizer attempt AA pairings. And he got the same productivity. It's not a company conspiracy.
6. We are not "using it wrong" according the NavTech.
Did I miss any of the "I've heards"?
07-01-2016, 04:25 PM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: ????
Posts: 579
A lot of this was answered in a detailed post in the now closed thread. I'll recap.
First off, stop believing everything you hear from people who claim to know anything. Most of the time they're wrong.
1. Pairings are not crap just to keep you at 75 hours. It's all about crew staging for overnights. Just look at UA vs AA. Pairing are built the same way.
2. Delta, Jet Blue, Air Canada, Envoy FA's, Alaska FA's and soon to be American pilots all use NavTech pbs. And NONE of them Get their results in 6 hours. Don't compare us to Skywest. Different software with totally different award methods. navTech is pilot centric. Theirs is global solution.
3. Pretty much everyone listed above have dedicated planners just for pbs. Ours do EVERYTHING.
4. Remember that with both pairings and pbs there is an alpa person doing the same work right next to the planners. While I cannot outright veto something, I will say after years of doing this my opinion on pbs runs carries weight with them. Same goes with our pairing people.
5. With regards to pairings. There's a hotline from about 2 years ago where we had the guy who wrote the optimizer attempt AA pairings. And he got the same productivity. It's not a company conspiracy.
6. We are not "using it wrong" according the NavTech.
Did I miss any of the "I've heards"?
First off, stop believing everything you hear from people who claim to know anything. Most of the time they're wrong.
1. Pairings are not crap just to keep you at 75 hours. It's all about crew staging for overnights. Just look at UA vs AA. Pairing are built the same way.
2. Delta, Jet Blue, Air Canada, Envoy FA's, Alaska FA's and soon to be American pilots all use NavTech pbs. And NONE of them Get their results in 6 hours. Don't compare us to Skywest. Different software with totally different award methods. navTech is pilot centric. Theirs is global solution.
3. Pretty much everyone listed above have dedicated planners just for pbs. Ours do EVERYTHING.
4. Remember that with both pairings and pbs there is an alpa person doing the same work right next to the planners. While I cannot outright veto something, I will say after years of doing this my opinion on pbs runs carries weight with them. Same goes with our pairing people.
5. With regards to pairings. There's a hotline from about 2 years ago where we had the guy who wrote the optimizer attempt AA pairings. And he got the same productivity. It's not a company conspiracy.
6. We are not "using it wrong" according the NavTech.
Did I miss any of the "I've heards"?
07-01-2016, 05:10 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: DFW CRJ CA
Posts: 340
True you didn't. But that's the common theme. To be honest we agree they're far from ideal. And there will always be those who don't believe the stuff we put out and will continue to believe that Mesa doing it on purpose and laughing all the way. I will say productive pairings are the one thing both sides agree on. The staffing model is based on pilots averaging 85 hours. So it's really not saving money to be at 76 hours, it requires MORE bodies and that costs more money. But the reality is that overnight staging, far's and dynamic flight changes from day to day drastically effect how well pairings work out.
When 117 came along. UA had meetings with everyone including all their regionals about what needed to be changed and how the overall picture needed to be changed as a result.
AA (US at the time) said they weren't going to make any marketing changes as a result and it was up to us to figure it out.
That pretty much sums up the two partners.
When 117 came along. UA had meetings with everyone including all their regionals about what needed to be changed and how the overall picture needed to be changed as a result.
AA (US at the time) said they weren't going to make any marketing changes as a result and it was up to us to figure it out.
That pretty much sums up the two partners.
07-01-2016, 05:24 PM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: ????
Posts: 579
True you didn't. But that's the common theme. To be honest we agree they're far from ideal. And there will always be those who don't believe the stuff we put out and will continue to believe that Mesa doing it on purpose and laughing all the way. I will say productive pairings are the one thing both sides agree on. The staffing model is based on pilots averaging 85 hours. So it's really not saving money to be at 76 hours, it requires MORE bodies and that costs more money. But the reality is that overnight staging, far's and dynamic flight changes from day to day drastically effect how well pairings work out.
When 117 came along. UA had meetings with everyone including all their regionals about what needed to be changed and how the overall picture needed to be changed as a result.
AA (US at the time) said they weren't going to make any marketing changes as a result and it was up to us to figure it out.
That pretty much sums up the two partners.
When 117 came along. UA had meetings with everyone including all their regionals about what needed to be changed and how the overall picture needed to be changed as a result.
AA (US at the time) said they weren't going to make any marketing changes as a result and it was up to us to figure it out.
That pretty much sums up the two partners.
Thanks for your response.
07-01-2016, 10:41 PM
#97
Living the Dream
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,795
Yeah, it's always great to hear info and explanation straight from you. One other question if you don't mind: How are the pairings initially created before we bid on them and get awarded them? Would it be possible or advantageous to not create pairings ahead of bidding, but then have them be created in the course of awarding people's preferences?
07-02-2016, 04:26 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: DFW CRJ CA
Posts: 340
2 totally separate programs and processes. Takes them about a week. Process starts around the end of the month and finishes about the 5th. They're the same pairings for both pilot and fa. So they get built into fa lines and sent out to them on like the 7th or 8th.
07-04-2016, 10:35 AM
#99
Reserve Life
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 98
Mesa started a Pilot Recruitment Facebook page. Looks like the pilot shortage has finally caught up to them. To be honest, I really do hope you guys get brought up to industry average pay and the pilot group doesn't fall apart. I have a good friend with you in Houston who says he really likes the pilot group, schedule, and hands off management. I'd enjoy the opportunity to live in Houston and the E175 would be a nice bonus, but I can't justify it at $22/hr.
07-04-2016, 10:45 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,198
Mesa started a Pilot Recruitment Facebook page. Looks like the pilot shortage has finally caught up to them. To be honest, I really do hope you guys get brought up to industry average pay and the pilot group doesn't fall apart. I have a good friend with you in Houston who says he really likes the pilot group, schedule, and hands off management. I'd enjoy the opportunity to live in Houston and the E175 would be a nice bonus, but I can't justify it at $22/hr.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
