New Mesa Thread
08-23-2015, 02:23 PM
#791
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: E-175 Captain
Posts: 83
Wake up! Quit being fooled by management and ALPA. This TA is useless and a huge waste of money and time. Don't let them lead you to believe this "fast upgrade" or "don't worry you'll be flying for mainline in a few years" crap. Only fools believe that a regional FO job is "entry level" and paid like a $2 *****. Stand up for what you feel is right and don't bow down to their "This is as good as it gets" bull$hit from ALPA and management.
Amen.
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08-23-2015, 03:00 PM
#792
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 73
Last edited by SubwaySandwich; 08-23-2015 at 03:21 PM.
08-24-2015, 02:21 PM
#793
Living the Dream
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,795
Are roadshows still relevant in 2015? The Delta pilots have had a lot of laughs about how backward their MEC was by distributing paper packets and almost completely ignoring electronic distribution of information. That being said, I think most of the people here had looked over the TA online and decided for themselves it was a no-go within 48 hours. So what's the point of these roadshows? Couldn't a conference call or a video conference achieve the same thing with a lot less time, money, and energy on everyone's part? They could've put that together within a few days instead of spending a whole month organizing in-person events. It's just a thought. Maybe older pilots prefer them, but we all know how we're voting and waiting for these roadshows to be done so we can vote seems like a waste of time and union dues. Besides, any worthwhile contract should speak for and sell itself.
08-24-2015, 03:36 PM
#794
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Straight off the MAG website (or from your booklet provided by the union), check out the 2014 contract comparison. From the intro paragraph: “Even as comparable groups have rejected “concessionary” agreements, our own hourly pay rates still fall well below the industry average. In many cases, as you’ll see in the following pages, we’re not only below the industry average—we’re at the bottom of the industry.” Also “This document illustrates several areas where the MAG contract must be improved, and we will highlight some of the areas where we are focusing our attention on at the bargaining table.”
From the conclusion: “As you can see from this overview, we have a lot of work ahead of us to get our contract where it needs to be—and the environment has not become easier. Our pay is at the bottom of the industry, even compared to agreements that were considered concessionary. As Mesa continues to grow and bring new airplanes on to the property, it’s vital that Mesa’s professional pilots get paid in line with their peers at other airlines. Captains—and first officers—must be paid industry-standard wages for our industry leading professionalism. The Mesa health-care insurance must be brought more in line not only with our industry but also with common sense. To expect the lowest-paid pilots to pay the highest (by a large margin) premiums in the industry simply defies logic. The Mesa Air Group pilots have made significant progress with each of our contracts. We are committed to doing the same in our current negotiations—despite the industry around us.”
So…no real raise for CAs (all 76 seat drivers getting 700 pay blended to reach 900/175 pay in 5 years), a laughable 20-27 cent raise for 2-9 year FOs and 0 cent raise for new hires, no improvement in healthcare, concessionary reserve language, one of the only (or the only) regional with no trip/duty rig or min day guarantee, fewest days off, still the lowest per diem, and all the “improvements” to the reserve language based on moving goalposts set by the company with zero transparency to us, which, if the company wants, can just red our buffers at will and negate any and all improvements to reserve language, all while ensuring no one breaks min guarantee with the balancing of hours (seniority be dammed). There were a couple other concessions in reserve language as well.
Why has the tone changed with the union? Did the NC not see this report and the intent of the union as of a year and a half ago? A year or so ago when I started working here and I was handed this booklet, I thought we as a pilot group (via the union) were standing up for ourselves and were trying to raise our standard to the compete with rest of the industry. Now through the union emails/conference calls, they are saying this is the best we can get, and it’s in our best interest to vote yes, and they unanimously sent it to the pilot group, yet none, zero, zilch, of the improvements they said they are out to get came to fruition (minus the 50 seat pay going away and KCM being paid for, which we shouldn’t even be discussing). Also, the “block or better/line guarantee” screw up in language in our current contract that the union is responsible for goofing up isn’t even fixed.
Can someone please enlighten me about this about-face in tone? What changed up there? Isn't the union supposed to be the voice of the collective pilot group that stands up for us? Why now do we as the pilot group have to stand up to both management and the union and tell them this isn't what we want? If the union was doing this to show the company the pilots are serious about wanting a better contract by the landslide no vote, then why are they trying like hell to butter us up, convince us this is the best we can get, and spending dues money on road shows and trying to sell this TA?
From the conclusion: “As you can see from this overview, we have a lot of work ahead of us to get our contract where it needs to be—and the environment has not become easier. Our pay is at the bottom of the industry, even compared to agreements that were considered concessionary. As Mesa continues to grow and bring new airplanes on to the property, it’s vital that Mesa’s professional pilots get paid in line with their peers at other airlines. Captains—and first officers—must be paid industry-standard wages for our industry leading professionalism. The Mesa health-care insurance must be brought more in line not only with our industry but also with common sense. To expect the lowest-paid pilots to pay the highest (by a large margin) premiums in the industry simply defies logic. The Mesa Air Group pilots have made significant progress with each of our contracts. We are committed to doing the same in our current negotiations—despite the industry around us.”
So…no real raise for CAs (all 76 seat drivers getting 700 pay blended to reach 900/175 pay in 5 years), a laughable 20-27 cent raise for 2-9 year FOs and 0 cent raise for new hires, no improvement in healthcare, concessionary reserve language, one of the only (or the only) regional with no trip/duty rig or min day guarantee, fewest days off, still the lowest per diem, and all the “improvements” to the reserve language based on moving goalposts set by the company with zero transparency to us, which, if the company wants, can just red our buffers at will and negate any and all improvements to reserve language, all while ensuring no one breaks min guarantee with the balancing of hours (seniority be dammed). There were a couple other concessions in reserve language as well.
Why has the tone changed with the union? Did the NC not see this report and the intent of the union as of a year and a half ago? A year or so ago when I started working here and I was handed this booklet, I thought we as a pilot group (via the union) were standing up for ourselves and were trying to raise our standard to the compete with rest of the industry. Now through the union emails/conference calls, they are saying this is the best we can get, and it’s in our best interest to vote yes, and they unanimously sent it to the pilot group, yet none, zero, zilch, of the improvements they said they are out to get came to fruition (minus the 50 seat pay going away and KCM being paid for, which we shouldn’t even be discussing). Also, the “block or better/line guarantee” screw up in language in our current contract that the union is responsible for goofing up isn’t even fixed.
Can someone please enlighten me about this about-face in tone? What changed up there? Isn't the union supposed to be the voice of the collective pilot group that stands up for us? Why now do we as the pilot group have to stand up to both management and the union and tell them this isn't what we want? If the union was doing this to show the company the pilots are serious about wanting a better contract by the landslide no vote, then why are they trying like hell to butter us up, convince us this is the best we can get, and spending dues money on road shows and trying to sell this TA?
08-24-2015, 03:42 PM
#795
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,624
Straight off the MAG website (or from your booklet provided by the union), check out the 2014 contract comparison. From the intro paragraph: “Even as comparable groups have rejected “concessionary” agreements, our own hourly pay rates still fall well below the industry average. In many cases, as you’ll see in the following pages, we’re not only below the industry average—we’re at the bottom of the industry.” Also “This document illustrates several areas where the MAG contract must be improved, and we will highlight some of the areas where we are focusing our attention on at the bargaining table.”
From the conclusion: “As you can see from this overview, we have a lot of work ahead of us to get our contract where it needs to be—and the environment has not become easier. Our pay is at the bottom of the industry, even compared to agreements that were considered concessionary. As Mesa continues to grow and bring new airplanes on to the property, it’s vital that Mesa’s professional pilots get paid in line with their peers at other airlines. Captains—and first officers—must be paid industry-standard wages for our industry leading professionalism. The Mesa health-care insurance must be brought more in line not only with our industry but also with common sense. To expect the lowest-paid pilots to pay the highest (by a large margin) premiums in the industry simply defies logic. The Mesa Air Group pilots have made significant progress with each of our contracts. We are committed to doing the same in our current negotiations—despite the industry around us.”
So…no real raise for CAs (all 76 seat drivers getting 700 pay blended to reach 900/175 pay in 5 years), a laughable 20-27 cent raise for 2-9 year FOs and 0 cent raise for new hires, no improvement in healthcare, concessionary reserve language, one of the only (or the only) regional with no trip/duty rig or min day guarantee, fewest days off, still the lowest per diem, and all the “improvements” to the reserve language based on moving goalposts set by the company with zero transparency to us, which, if the company wants, can just red our buffers at will and negate any and all improvements to reserve language, all while ensuring no one breaks min guarantee with the balancing of hours (seniority be dammed). There were a couple other concessions in reserve language as well.
Why has the tone changed with the union? Did the NC not see this report and the intent of the union as of a year and a half ago? A year or so ago when I started working here and I was handed this booklet, I thought we as a pilot group (via the union) were standing up for ourselves and were trying to raise our standard to the compete with rest of the industry. Now through the union emails/conference calls, they are saying this is the best we can get, and it’s in our best interest to vote yes, and they unanimously sent it to the pilot group, yet none, zero, zilch, of the improvements they said they are out to get came to fruition (minus the 50 seat pay going away and KCM being paid for, which we shouldn’t even be discussing). Also, the “block or better/line guarantee” screw up in language in our current contract that the union is responsible for goofing up isn’t even fixed.
Can someone please enlighten me about this about-face in tone? What changed up there? Isn't the union supposed to be the voice of the collective pilot group that stands up for us? Why now do we as the pilot group have to stand up to both management and the union and tell them this isn't what we want? If the union was doing this to show the company the pilots are serious about wanting a better contract by the landslide no vote, then why are they trying like hell to butter us up, convince us this is the best we can get, and spending dues money on road shows and trying to sell this TA?
From the conclusion: “As you can see from this overview, we have a lot of work ahead of us to get our contract where it needs to be—and the environment has not become easier. Our pay is at the bottom of the industry, even compared to agreements that were considered concessionary. As Mesa continues to grow and bring new airplanes on to the property, it’s vital that Mesa’s professional pilots get paid in line with their peers at other airlines. Captains—and first officers—must be paid industry-standard wages for our industry leading professionalism. The Mesa health-care insurance must be brought more in line not only with our industry but also with common sense. To expect the lowest-paid pilots to pay the highest (by a large margin) premiums in the industry simply defies logic. The Mesa Air Group pilots have made significant progress with each of our contracts. We are committed to doing the same in our current negotiations—despite the industry around us.”
So…no real raise for CAs (all 76 seat drivers getting 700 pay blended to reach 900/175 pay in 5 years), a laughable 20-27 cent raise for 2-9 year FOs and 0 cent raise for new hires, no improvement in healthcare, concessionary reserve language, one of the only (or the only) regional with no trip/duty rig or min day guarantee, fewest days off, still the lowest per diem, and all the “improvements” to the reserve language based on moving goalposts set by the company with zero transparency to us, which, if the company wants, can just red our buffers at will and negate any and all improvements to reserve language, all while ensuring no one breaks min guarantee with the balancing of hours (seniority be dammed). There were a couple other concessions in reserve language as well.
Why has the tone changed with the union? Did the NC not see this report and the intent of the union as of a year and a half ago? A year or so ago when I started working here and I was handed this booklet, I thought we as a pilot group (via the union) were standing up for ourselves and were trying to raise our standard to the compete with rest of the industry. Now through the union emails/conference calls, they are saying this is the best we can get, and it’s in our best interest to vote yes, and they unanimously sent it to the pilot group, yet none, zero, zilch, of the improvements they said they are out to get came to fruition (minus the 50 seat pay going away and KCM being paid for, which we shouldn’t even be discussing). Also, the “block or better/line guarantee” screw up in language in our current contract that the union is responsible for goofing up isn’t even fixed.
Can someone please enlighten me about this about-face in tone? What changed up there? Isn't the union supposed to be the voice of the collective pilot group that stands up for us? Why now do we as the pilot group have to stand up to both management and the union and tell them this isn't what we want? If the union was doing this to show the company the pilots are serious about wanting a better contract by the landslide no vote, then why are they trying like hell to butter us up, convince us this is the best we can get, and spending dues money on road shows and trying to sell this TA?
08-24-2015, 04:42 PM
#796
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: CL-65 CA
Posts: 246
Straight off the MAG website (or from your booklet provided by the union), check out the 2014 contract comparison. From the intro paragraph: “Even as comparable groups have rejected “concessionary” agreements, our own hourly pay rates still fall well below the industry average. In many cases, as you’ll see in the following pages, we’re not only below the industry average—we’re at the bottom of the industry.” Also “This document illustrates several areas where the MAG contract must be improved, and we will highlight some of the areas where we are focusing our attention on at the bargaining table.”
From the conclusion: “As you can see from this overview, we have a lot of work ahead of us to get our contract where it needs to be—and the environment has not become easier. Our pay is at the bottom of the industry, even compared to agreements that were considered concessionary. As Mesa continues to grow and bring new airplanes on to the property, it’s vital that Mesa’s professional pilots get paid in line with their peers at other airlines. Captains—and first officers—must be paid industry-standard wages for our industry leading professionalism. The Mesa health-care insurance must be brought more in line not only with our industry but also with common sense. To expect the lowest-paid pilots to pay the highest (by a large margin) premiums in the industry simply defies logic. The Mesa Air Group pilots have made significant progress with each of our contracts. We are committed to doing the same in our current negotiations—despite the industry around us.”
So…no real raise for CAs (all 76 seat drivers getting 700 pay blended to reach 900/175 pay in 5 years), a laughable 20-27 cent raise for 2-9 year FOs and 0 cent raise for new hires, no improvement in healthcare, concessionary reserve language, one of the only (or the only) regional with no trip/duty rig or min day guarantee, fewest days off, still the lowest per diem, and all the “improvements” to the reserve language based on moving goalposts set by the company with zero transparency to us, which, if the company wants, can just red our buffers at will and negate any and all improvements to reserve language, all while ensuring no one breaks min guarantee with the balancing of hours (seniority be dammed). There were a couple other concessions in reserve language as well.
Why has the tone changed with the union? Did the NC not see this report and the intent of the union as of a year and a half ago? A year or so ago when I started working here and I was handed this booklet, I thought we as a pilot group (via the union) were standing up for ourselves and were trying to raise our standard to the compete with rest of the industry. Now through the union emails/conference calls, they are saying this is the best we can get, and it’s in our best interest to vote yes, and they unanimously sent it to the pilot group, yet none, zero, zilch, of the improvements they said they are out to get came to fruition (minus the 50 seat pay going away and KCM being paid for, which we shouldn’t even be discussing). Also, the “block or better/line guarantee” screw up in language in our current contract that the union is responsible for goofing up isn’t even fixed.
Can someone please enlighten me about this about-face in tone? What changed up there? Isn't the union supposed to be the voice of the collective pilot group that stands up for us? Why now do we as the pilot group have to stand up to both management and the union and tell them this isn't what we want? If the union was doing this to show the company the pilots are serious about wanting a better contract by the landslide no vote, then why are they trying like hell to butter us up, convince us this is the best we can get, and spending dues money on road shows and trying to sell this TA?
From the conclusion: “As you can see from this overview, we have a lot of work ahead of us to get our contract where it needs to be—and the environment has not become easier. Our pay is at the bottom of the industry, even compared to agreements that were considered concessionary. As Mesa continues to grow and bring new airplanes on to the property, it’s vital that Mesa’s professional pilots get paid in line with their peers at other airlines. Captains—and first officers—must be paid industry-standard wages for our industry leading professionalism. The Mesa health-care insurance must be brought more in line not only with our industry but also with common sense. To expect the lowest-paid pilots to pay the highest (by a large margin) premiums in the industry simply defies logic. The Mesa Air Group pilots have made significant progress with each of our contracts. We are committed to doing the same in our current negotiations—despite the industry around us.”
So…no real raise for CAs (all 76 seat drivers getting 700 pay blended to reach 900/175 pay in 5 years), a laughable 20-27 cent raise for 2-9 year FOs and 0 cent raise for new hires, no improvement in healthcare, concessionary reserve language, one of the only (or the only) regional with no trip/duty rig or min day guarantee, fewest days off, still the lowest per diem, and all the “improvements” to the reserve language based on moving goalposts set by the company with zero transparency to us, which, if the company wants, can just red our buffers at will and negate any and all improvements to reserve language, all while ensuring no one breaks min guarantee with the balancing of hours (seniority be dammed). There were a couple other concessions in reserve language as well.
Why has the tone changed with the union? Did the NC not see this report and the intent of the union as of a year and a half ago? A year or so ago when I started working here and I was handed this booklet, I thought we as a pilot group (via the union) were standing up for ourselves and were trying to raise our standard to the compete with rest of the industry. Now through the union emails/conference calls, they are saying this is the best we can get, and it’s in our best interest to vote yes, and they unanimously sent it to the pilot group, yet none, zero, zilch, of the improvements they said they are out to get came to fruition (minus the 50 seat pay going away and KCM being paid for, which we shouldn’t even be discussing). Also, the “block or better/line guarantee” screw up in language in our current contract that the union is responsible for goofing up isn’t even fixed.
Can someone please enlighten me about this about-face in tone? What changed up there? Isn't the union supposed to be the voice of the collective pilot group that stands up for us? Why now do we as the pilot group have to stand up to both management and the union and tell them this isn't what we want? If the union was doing this to show the company the pilots are serious about wanting a better contract by the landslide no vote, then why are they trying like hell to butter us up, convince us this is the best we can get, and spending dues money on road shows and trying to sell this TA?
08-24-2015, 04:58 PM
#797
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 688
reality happened
Straight off the MAG website (or from your booklet provided by the union), check out the 2014 contract comparison. From the intro paragraph: “Even as comparable groups have rejected “concessionary” agreements, our own hourly pay rates still fall well below the industry average. In many cases, as you’ll see in the following pages, we’re not only below the industry average—we’re at the bottom of the industry.” Also “This document illustrates several areas where the MAG contract must be improved, and we will highlight some of the areas where we are focusing our attention on at the bargaining table.”
From the conclusion: “As you can see from this overview, we have a lot of work ahead of us to get our contract where it needs to be—and the environment has not become easier. Our pay is at the bottom of the industry, even compared to agreements that were considered concessionary. As Mesa continues to grow and bring new airplanes on to the property, it’s vital that Mesa’s professional pilots get paid in line with their peers at other airlines. Captains—and first officers—must be paid industry-standard wages for our industry leading professionalism. The Mesa health-care insurance must be brought more in line not only with our industry but also with common sense. To expect the lowest-paid pilots to pay the highest (by a large margin) premiums in the industry simply defies logic. The Mesa Air Group pilots have made significant progress with each of our contracts. We are committed to doing the same in our current negotiations—despite the industry around us.”
So…no real raise for CAs (all 76 seat drivers getting 700 pay blended to reach 900/175 pay in 5 years), a laughable 20-27 cent raise for 2-9 year FOs and 0 cent raise for new hires, no improvement in healthcare, concessionary reserve language, one of the only (or the only) regional with no trip/duty rig or min day guarantee, fewest days off, still the lowest per diem, and all the “improvements” to the reserve language based on moving goalposts set by the company with zero transparency to us, which, if the company wants, can just red our buffers at will and negate any and all improvements to reserve language, all while ensuring no one breaks min guarantee with the balancing of hours (seniority be dammed). There were a couple other concessions in reserve language as well.
Why has the tone changed with the union? Did the NC not see this report and the intent of the union as of a year and a half ago? A year or so ago when I started working here and I was handed this booklet, I thought we as a pilot group (via the union) were standing up for ourselves and were trying to raise our standard to the compete with rest of the industry. Now through the union emails/conference calls, they are saying this is the best we can get, and it’s in our best interest to vote yes, and they unanimously sent it to the pilot group, yet none, zero, zilch, of the improvements they said they are out to get came to fruition (minus the 50 seat pay going away and KCM being paid for, which we shouldn’t even be discussing). Also, the “block or better/line guarantee” screw up in language in our current contract that the union is responsible for goofing up isn’t even fixed.
Can someone please enlighten me about this about-face in tone? What changed up there? Isn't the union supposed to be the voice of the collective pilot group that stands up for us? Why now do we as the pilot group have to stand up to both management and the union and tell them this isn't what we want? If the union was doing this to show the company the pilots are serious about wanting a better contract by the landslide no vote, then why are they trying like hell to butter us up, convince us this is the best we can get, and spending dues money on road shows and trying to sell this TA?
From the conclusion: “As you can see from this overview, we have a lot of work ahead of us to get our contract where it needs to be—and the environment has not become easier. Our pay is at the bottom of the industry, even compared to agreements that were considered concessionary. As Mesa continues to grow and bring new airplanes on to the property, it’s vital that Mesa’s professional pilots get paid in line with their peers at other airlines. Captains—and first officers—must be paid industry-standard wages for our industry leading professionalism. The Mesa health-care insurance must be brought more in line not only with our industry but also with common sense. To expect the lowest-paid pilots to pay the highest (by a large margin) premiums in the industry simply defies logic. The Mesa Air Group pilots have made significant progress with each of our contracts. We are committed to doing the same in our current negotiations—despite the industry around us.”
So…no real raise for CAs (all 76 seat drivers getting 700 pay blended to reach 900/175 pay in 5 years), a laughable 20-27 cent raise for 2-9 year FOs and 0 cent raise for new hires, no improvement in healthcare, concessionary reserve language, one of the only (or the only) regional with no trip/duty rig or min day guarantee, fewest days off, still the lowest per diem, and all the “improvements” to the reserve language based on moving goalposts set by the company with zero transparency to us, which, if the company wants, can just red our buffers at will and negate any and all improvements to reserve language, all while ensuring no one breaks min guarantee with the balancing of hours (seniority be dammed). There were a couple other concessions in reserve language as well.
Why has the tone changed with the union? Did the NC not see this report and the intent of the union as of a year and a half ago? A year or so ago when I started working here and I was handed this booklet, I thought we as a pilot group (via the union) were standing up for ourselves and were trying to raise our standard to the compete with rest of the industry. Now through the union emails/conference calls, they are saying this is the best we can get, and it’s in our best interest to vote yes, and they unanimously sent it to the pilot group, yet none, zero, zilch, of the improvements they said they are out to get came to fruition (minus the 50 seat pay going away and KCM being paid for, which we shouldn’t even be discussing). Also, the “block or better/line guarantee” screw up in language in our current contract that the union is responsible for goofing up isn’t even fixed.
Can someone please enlighten me about this about-face in tone? What changed up there? Isn't the union supposed to be the voice of the collective pilot group that stands up for us? Why now do we as the pilot group have to stand up to both management and the union and tell them this isn't what we want? If the union was doing this to show the company the pilots are serious about wanting a better contract by the landslide no vote, then why are they trying like hell to butter us up, convince us this is the best we can get, and spending dues money on road shows and trying to sell this TA?
08-24-2015, 05:35 PM
#798
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: men without hats
Posts: 371
Regarding the "1% fleet transfer" clause. I wonder if any current E Jet Captains would use this to bid back to the CRJ.
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