New Mesa Thread
08-22-2015, 10:22 PM
#781
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
I'm kind of glad so many people are on reserve in IAH next month--it will make everyone think twice about voting in these horribly concessionary reserve rules that completely ignore seniority in terms of whether you fly or not
08-23-2015, 07:37 AM
#783
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: Airbus FO
Posts: 279
As much as I hear everyone saying they are voting no now, it still worries me this thing might pass. The yes voters can never be found. Just like the last one. 51 percent voted yes, but I couldn't find any who said they did. I have always been surprised with how many end up voting yes.
08-23-2015, 08:20 AM
#784
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 580
Copied this from another thread. VOTE NO TO JO
I have a question for you all. Usually, I try and be diplomatic, encourage debate, and try to listen to opposing views, but I'm not going to do that with today's post because I don't think there is a valid opposing view, the environment has changed. If you disagree with me then you are an idiot and will be stealing from your wife and from your kids.
Here are the starting pay rates for a CRJ-700 Captain at a Japanese
airline that will be in Denver recruiting pilots. Since they are here looking I am assuming they pay much less than the others who are not having to come here.
Net Monthly Salary (After all Japan tax)
During Training
USD6,440.00
1st Year
Non-Commuting
USD8,220.00
Commuting
USD7,630.00
2nd Year
Non-Commuting
USD8,820.00
Commuting
USD8,120.00
Completion Bonus
JPY2,000,000 (USD17,000 at current rate) After all Japan tax
Accommodation
Housing Allowance Available
Days off from work
10 Days Off for Non-Commuting Pilot per month
18 Days Consecutive Days Off in 2 Months for Commuting Pilot
Vacation
24 Days per Year (Non-Commuting)
20 Days per Year (Commuting)
Ticket Allowance
With the bonus, after training, the first year salary is $102,890 and second year it is 110,090.
In the past there was a simple reason that they had to pay more, we had lots of available pilots they did not. Supply and demand.
Are there a lot of extra pilots in the US now? No, so that difference no longer exists.
So my question is, wait, wait, wait!
Why are you considering less? Why is there a debate, why is there even a discussion?
Republic pays a first year captain 64 an hour times a guarantee of 75x 12 months = $57600. A 5 year captain is 77x75x12= $69300. Therefore, a republic pilot is making $45,290 less than starting at this other airline. Being pilots we will lie to ourselves by saying if we give up our days off we can make 10 hours more a month to make another $11520. That way we can compare apples to oranges so that the difference is only $33770. An emotional defense so we don't feel so stupid. But you could fly overtime at the other airline too so lets not lie to ourselves and realize it is a difference of $45,290 on an apple/apple basis.
On the EMB-145 it is 50 x 75 x 12 = 45,000. Difference is $57,890.
At Gojet they pay 65 x 74 x 12 = $57720 (120 a year more than Republic's best airplane, tell me the airlines are not getting together to decide what they are going to pay you!) That is a difference of $45,170. per year.
The market is telling you that you should make a minimum of $45170 a year more than what you are being paid. What is the union looking at getting you, a 10, may 20% increase? Why are you doing that? over 10 years that is $451,700.
You need to tell the companies that you are being offered $102,890 by the competition for a first year captain, nobody, absolutely nobody should be considering agreeing to a dollar less! That is the already the level, they need to beat that number.
Everyone needs to remember these two numbers, $102,890 for a first year captain and $110,090 for a 5 year captain. You need to make sure that everyone you fly with knows these 2 numbers. You need to take a tube of lipstick and write it on your mirror at home and leave it there, you need to write it on your hotel mirror and leave it there when you check out. You need to show the number to your wife and kids and even your mother-in-law because that is your minimum worth, that is what you deserve as a minimum, any dollar less and you are being robbed.
Tell your wife, kids, and mother-in-law what these numbers are. Tell them about how the pilot shortage has hit the US and how the airlines are having problems getting pilots. Then, I dare you, explain to them why you are considering voting for a contract that would pay less!
I want to see these numbers everywhere. I want every CEO to know these numbers. I want every chief pilot to know these numbers. In fact I want both the chief pilot's wife and girl friend to know these numbers! I want every pilot scheduler to know these numbers. I want the schedulers to understand why they can't get pilots to fly for $75 dollars per hour less then the competition in Japan pays to fly an hour of overtime.
$102,890 and $110,090 should be the first numbers you look at when a contract is being offered. If the numbers are not bigger than that then don't bother reading any more! Stop settling for a $36 hotel room 3 times a month and get what the market demands. KDA, Know what you are worth, Demand what you are worth, Accept nothing less!
I have a question for you all. Usually, I try and be diplomatic, encourage debate, and try to listen to opposing views, but I'm not going to do that with today's post because I don't think there is a valid opposing view, the environment has changed. If you disagree with me then you are an idiot and will be stealing from your wife and from your kids.
Here are the starting pay rates for a CRJ-700 Captain at a Japanese
airline that will be in Denver recruiting pilots. Since they are here looking I am assuming they pay much less than the others who are not having to come here.
Net Monthly Salary (After all Japan tax)
During Training
USD6,440.00
1st Year
Non-Commuting
USD8,220.00
Commuting
USD7,630.00
2nd Year
Non-Commuting
USD8,820.00
Commuting
USD8,120.00
Completion Bonus
JPY2,000,000 (USD17,000 at current rate) After all Japan tax
Accommodation
Housing Allowance Available
Days off from work
10 Days Off for Non-Commuting Pilot per month
18 Days Consecutive Days Off in 2 Months for Commuting Pilot
Vacation
24 Days per Year (Non-Commuting)
20 Days per Year (Commuting)
Ticket Allowance
With the bonus, after training, the first year salary is $102,890 and second year it is 110,090.
In the past there was a simple reason that they had to pay more, we had lots of available pilots they did not. Supply and demand.
Are there a lot of extra pilots in the US now? No, so that difference no longer exists.
So my question is, wait, wait, wait!
Why are you considering less? Why is there a debate, why is there even a discussion?
Republic pays a first year captain 64 an hour times a guarantee of 75x 12 months = $57600. A 5 year captain is 77x75x12= $69300. Therefore, a republic pilot is making $45,290 less than starting at this other airline. Being pilots we will lie to ourselves by saying if we give up our days off we can make 10 hours more a month to make another $11520. That way we can compare apples to oranges so that the difference is only $33770. An emotional defense so we don't feel so stupid. But you could fly overtime at the other airline too so lets not lie to ourselves and realize it is a difference of $45,290 on an apple/apple basis.
On the EMB-145 it is 50 x 75 x 12 = 45,000. Difference is $57,890.
At Gojet they pay 65 x 74 x 12 = $57720 (120 a year more than Republic's best airplane, tell me the airlines are not getting together to decide what they are going to pay you!) That is a difference of $45,170. per year.
The market is telling you that you should make a minimum of $45170 a year more than what you are being paid. What is the union looking at getting you, a 10, may 20% increase? Why are you doing that? over 10 years that is $451,700.
You need to tell the companies that you are being offered $102,890 by the competition for a first year captain, nobody, absolutely nobody should be considering agreeing to a dollar less! That is the already the level, they need to beat that number.
Everyone needs to remember these two numbers, $102,890 for a first year captain and $110,090 for a 5 year captain. You need to make sure that everyone you fly with knows these 2 numbers. You need to take a tube of lipstick and write it on your mirror at home and leave it there, you need to write it on your hotel mirror and leave it there when you check out. You need to show the number to your wife and kids and even your mother-in-law because that is your minimum worth, that is what you deserve as a minimum, any dollar less and you are being robbed.
Tell your wife, kids, and mother-in-law what these numbers are. Tell them about how the pilot shortage has hit the US and how the airlines are having problems getting pilots. Then, I dare you, explain to them why you are considering voting for a contract that would pay less!
I want to see these numbers everywhere. I want every CEO to know these numbers. I want every chief pilot to know these numbers. In fact I want both the chief pilot's wife and girl friend to know these numbers! I want every pilot scheduler to know these numbers. I want the schedulers to understand why they can't get pilots to fly for $75 dollars per hour less then the competition in Japan pays to fly an hour of overtime.
$102,890 and $110,090 should be the first numbers you look at when a contract is being offered. If the numbers are not bigger than that then don't bother reading any more! Stop settling for a $36 hotel room 3 times a month and get what the market demands. KDA, Know what you are worth, Demand what you are worth, Accept nothing less!
08-23-2015, 10:25 AM
#785
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 555
Copied this from another thread. VOTE NO TO JO
I have a question for you all. Usually, I try and be diplomatic, encourage debate, and try to listen to opposing views, but I'm not going to do that with today's post because I don't think there is a valid opposing view, the environment has changed. If you disagree with me then you are an idiot and will be stealing from your wife and from your kids.
Here are the starting pay rates for a CRJ-700 Captain at a Japanese
airline that will be in Denver recruiting pilots. Since they are here looking I am assuming they pay much less than the others who are not having to come here.
Net Monthly Salary (After all Japan tax)
During Training
USD6,440.00
1st Year
Non-Commuting
USD8,220.00
Commuting
USD7,630.00
2nd Year
Non-Commuting
USD8,820.00
Commuting
USD8,120.00
Completion Bonus
JPY2,000,000 (USD17,000 at current rate) After all Japan tax
Accommodation
Housing Allowance Available
Days off from work
10 Days Off for Non-Commuting Pilot per month
18 Days Consecutive Days Off in 2 Months for Commuting Pilot
Vacation
24 Days per Year (Non-Commuting)
20 Days per Year (Commuting)
Ticket Allowance
With the bonus, after training, the first year salary is $102,890 and second year it is 110,090.
In the past there was a simple reason that they had to pay more, we had lots of available pilots they did not. Supply and demand.
Are there a lot of extra pilots in the US now? No, so that difference no longer exists.
So my question is, wait, wait, wait!
Why are you considering less? Why is there a debate, why is there even a discussion?
Republic pays a first year captain 64 an hour times a guarantee of 75x 12 months = $57600. A 5 year captain is 77x75x12= $69300. Therefore, a republic pilot is making $45,290 less than starting at this other airline. Being pilots we will lie to ourselves by saying if we give up our days off we can make 10 hours more a month to make another $11520. That way we can compare apples to oranges so that the difference is only $33770. An emotional defense so we don't feel so stupid. But you could fly overtime at the other airline too so lets not lie to ourselves and realize it is a difference of $45,290 on an apple/apple basis.
On the EMB-145 it is 50 x 75 x 12 = 45,000. Difference is $57,890.
At Gojet they pay 65 x 74 x 12 = $57720 (120 a year more than Republic's best airplane, tell me the airlines are not getting together to decide what they are going to pay you!) That is a difference of $45,170. per year.
The market is telling you that you should make a minimum of $45170 a year more than what you are being paid. What is the union looking at getting you, a 10, may 20% increase? Why are you doing that? over 10 years that is $451,700.
You need to tell the companies that you are being offered $102,890 by the competition for a first year captain, nobody, absolutely nobody should be considering agreeing to a dollar less! That is the already the level, they need to beat that number.
Everyone needs to remember these two numbers, $102,890 for a first year captain and $110,090 for a 5 year captain. You need to make sure that everyone you fly with knows these 2 numbers. You need to take a tube of lipstick and write it on your mirror at home and leave it there, you need to write it on your hotel mirror and leave it there when you check out. You need to show the number to your wife and kids and even your mother-in-law because that is your minimum worth, that is what you deserve as a minimum, any dollar less and you are being robbed.
Tell your wife, kids, and mother-in-law what these numbers are. Tell them about how the pilot shortage has hit the US and how the airlines are having problems getting pilots. Then, I dare you, explain to them why you are considering voting for a contract that would pay less!
I want to see these numbers everywhere. I want every CEO to know these numbers. I want every chief pilot to know these numbers. In fact I want both the chief pilot's wife and girl friend to know these numbers! I want every pilot scheduler to know these numbers. I want the schedulers to understand why they can't get pilots to fly for $75 dollars per hour less then the competition in Japan pays to fly an hour of overtime.
$102,890 and $110,090 should be the first numbers you look at when a contract is being offered. If the numbers are not bigger than that then don't bother reading any more! Stop settling for a $36 hotel room 3 times a month and get what the market demands. KDA, Know what you are worth, Demand what you are worth, Accept nothing less!
I have a question for you all. Usually, I try and be diplomatic, encourage debate, and try to listen to opposing views, but I'm not going to do that with today's post because I don't think there is a valid opposing view, the environment has changed. If you disagree with me then you are an idiot and will be stealing from your wife and from your kids.
Here are the starting pay rates for a CRJ-700 Captain at a Japanese
airline that will be in Denver recruiting pilots. Since they are here looking I am assuming they pay much less than the others who are not having to come here.
Net Monthly Salary (After all Japan tax)
During Training
USD6,440.00
1st Year
Non-Commuting
USD8,220.00
Commuting
USD7,630.00
2nd Year
Non-Commuting
USD8,820.00
Commuting
USD8,120.00
Completion Bonus
JPY2,000,000 (USD17,000 at current rate) After all Japan tax
Accommodation
Housing Allowance Available
Days off from work
10 Days Off for Non-Commuting Pilot per month
18 Days Consecutive Days Off in 2 Months for Commuting Pilot
Vacation
24 Days per Year (Non-Commuting)
20 Days per Year (Commuting)
Ticket Allowance
With the bonus, after training, the first year salary is $102,890 and second year it is 110,090.
In the past there was a simple reason that they had to pay more, we had lots of available pilots they did not. Supply and demand.
Are there a lot of extra pilots in the US now? No, so that difference no longer exists.
So my question is, wait, wait, wait!
Why are you considering less? Why is there a debate, why is there even a discussion?
Republic pays a first year captain 64 an hour times a guarantee of 75x 12 months = $57600. A 5 year captain is 77x75x12= $69300. Therefore, a republic pilot is making $45,290 less than starting at this other airline. Being pilots we will lie to ourselves by saying if we give up our days off we can make 10 hours more a month to make another $11520. That way we can compare apples to oranges so that the difference is only $33770. An emotional defense so we don't feel so stupid. But you could fly overtime at the other airline too so lets not lie to ourselves and realize it is a difference of $45,290 on an apple/apple basis.
On the EMB-145 it is 50 x 75 x 12 = 45,000. Difference is $57,890.
At Gojet they pay 65 x 74 x 12 = $57720 (120 a year more than Republic's best airplane, tell me the airlines are not getting together to decide what they are going to pay you!) That is a difference of $45,170. per year.
The market is telling you that you should make a minimum of $45170 a year more than what you are being paid. What is the union looking at getting you, a 10, may 20% increase? Why are you doing that? over 10 years that is $451,700.
You need to tell the companies that you are being offered $102,890 by the competition for a first year captain, nobody, absolutely nobody should be considering agreeing to a dollar less! That is the already the level, they need to beat that number.
Everyone needs to remember these two numbers, $102,890 for a first year captain and $110,090 for a 5 year captain. You need to make sure that everyone you fly with knows these 2 numbers. You need to take a tube of lipstick and write it on your mirror at home and leave it there, you need to write it on your hotel mirror and leave it there when you check out. You need to show the number to your wife and kids and even your mother-in-law because that is your minimum worth, that is what you deserve as a minimum, any dollar less and you are being robbed.
Tell your wife, kids, and mother-in-law what these numbers are. Tell them about how the pilot shortage has hit the US and how the airlines are having problems getting pilots. Then, I dare you, explain to them why you are considering voting for a contract that would pay less!
I want to see these numbers everywhere. I want every CEO to know these numbers. I want every chief pilot to know these numbers. In fact I want both the chief pilot's wife and girl friend to know these numbers! I want every pilot scheduler to know these numbers. I want the schedulers to understand why they can't get pilots to fly for $75 dollars per hour less then the competition in Japan pays to fly an hour of overtime.
$102,890 and $110,090 should be the first numbers you look at when a contract is being offered. If the numbers are not bigger than that then don't bother reading any more! Stop settling for a $36 hotel room 3 times a month and get what the market demands. KDA, Know what you are worth, Demand what you are worth, Accept nothing less!
What's the average of Mesa's captain pay rates? Not $100k, but a lot more than what you're saying. Get rid of the seniority system and you'll have your pay.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
08-23-2015, 10:36 AM
#786
Living the Dream
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,795
Granted, that's 1st year pay and the Mesa guys making that much have probably been here 20 years.
08-23-2015, 11:38 AM
#787
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 580
You don't get it! It's not the seniority system that is broken. It's what is wrong with the Regional Airline companies in the U.S. Getting away with paying their pilots. Mesa does have a lot of senior CA's taking up a lot of the money. Mesa is right behind Envoy and Expressjet with average cost and Mesa has the lowest FO pay rates.
08-23-2015, 11:47 AM
#788
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 688
1st year mainline isn't getting those numbers either. There's a huge need for qualified pilots in Asia. And go look at the requirements to be a first year Captain over there. No one getting a first year Mesa job is going to get that first year Asia contract job.
08-23-2015, 12:08 PM
#789
sippin' dat koolaid
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: gear slinger
Posts: 982
As much as I hear everyone saying they are voting no now, it still worries me this thing might pass. The yes voters can never be found. Just like the last one. 51 percent voted yes, but I couldn't find any who said they did. I have always been surprised with how many end up voting yes.
08-23-2015, 12:28 PM
#790
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 580
Wake up! Quit being fooled by management and ALPA. This TA is useless and a huge waste of money and time. Don't let them lead you to believe this "fast upgrade" or "don't worry you'll be flying for mainline in a few years" crap. Only fools believe that a regional FO job is "entry level" and paid like a $2 *****. Stand up for what you feel is right and don't bow down to their "This is as good as it gets" bull$hit from ALPA and management.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
