MagPBS

Welcome to mid-month marketing changes. If someone could convince a mainline marketing department to stop making massive scheduling changes in the 15th life would be so much better.

BeatNavy

I can't quote the quote but I'll answer MagPBS in order:

1: I'm not saying go to the old method and put us on reserve those days. I'm saying they should be straight paid drops for IOE. In theory, that time gets picked up by new hires that would otherwise get flown by reserves if there were no IOE students. Cost neutral to the company. The company can in theory have fewer reserves since reserves won't fly empty IOE trips. That's how other airlines do it (at least DL and I think others as well).

2. "Attempted" and failed to come close to industry standard...just like every aspect of the contract, but the union still vehemently recommended to vote yes (and all those "yes" pushers are still around except a couple...unbelievable, but I digress).

3. Massively larger airlines and more pilots in their groups/more block hours to process and they still do it faster. Call it what you want and say they do it differently and it's roughly the same, but in DL's case they have 6x our pilot group and JB has 2-3x our pilot group, and they still are faster.

4. I've had requests that have taken longer than 48 hours beyond the last 2 months. I think 4 months ago was the first I experienced it but I don't recall exactly. It just got really bad in the last 2-3 months.

5. That's my point. Process split trips separately.

6. Same as above. Let the straight add/drop/swaps that are full trips on both ends be processed automatically in a separate order than split trips. With as complex and advanced as this software is, there's gotta be a way to program it so that it can do that. For that matter, there should be one software package FLICA and/or Sabre that can do it all, or at least they should be able to talk to each other enough to allow it to happen. The airlines pay these companies enough to have their programmers figure it out.

deltajuliet

Lots of discussion...
First, thank you very much for taking the time to explain it. And that goes for times in the past as well, you've helped me on several occasions and just about everyone else too. I know it must take significant time to be so thorough with everybody, and it is appreciated, even if people seem negative because they're mad about the schedule they got.

Pretty much this. It's true the union catches a lot of flak around here, but if there's any exception it's absolutely XS. And I'd rather not scare off the only union member to ever come to us with hostility and criticism.

That said, it is pretty nice to have somebody from the union come here to the central hub of Mesa pilot communications. ALPA emails are okay, but they're inefficient, sterilized in official language, and most of the guys probably don't bother reading them. APC might not have a statistically large amount of MAG pilots, but I'd argue we have a good demographical cross section of the group, there are plenty of lurkers, people are always signing up for the site, and we can actually have substantive open discussion. This answers questions for everyone and we can share good ideas. Personally I've learned a lot in the last few pages.

MagPBS, I'm glad you're here and I hope you stick around a while. Not that you have to answer every single person or post every single day, but it's nice to have an easier means of open communication with the union. Now if only we could get the MEC in here...

Yeah, it sure would be nice to get bought off trips. At the very least, holding IOE trips also deprives senior FO's of the best trips. Some IOE Captains constantly bid day trips so they're home every night, meaning Joe FO who's #5 in base can never get a day trip because they're all going to the brand new guy on IOE who probably doesn't care one way or another. But I digress.

Ha, now I understand why it's called unstacking.

Idea: If the pairings are already created for FA's earlier in the month, why couldn't we push back our bidding window? Instead of the 13th-17th, say, 8th-12th, and then get awards by around the 17th. Something like that.

Xdashdriver

Did ALPA have much involvement in the paper bidding process like you have now with PBS? From what I remember you guys weren't allowed as much access as you have now.

BeatNavy

MagPBS: you have brought a lot of good info to the forum, as you do in crew rooms and over the phone/email. Can you convince the company to give you 3-4 hours during indoc to help spread the knowledge? If you got people at the beginning, it could save you lots of time doing one on one issues later. Of course, since it's 3 months or so from indoc to bidding people will probably forget with as much other info as they are absorbing. But perhaps a training manual could be handed or sent out. It took me months of trial and error, asking people, etc., before I understood enough to be able to even read the manual, and I still learn new things about PBS every so often.

MagPBS

That wouldn't work. Lets say you put in to swap x5555 for x5575. But 10 requests above you someone put in to swap the last 2 days of x4455 for the last 2 days of x5575. You both want the same pairing. His request requires a human yours doesn't. If it ran two separate process strings his request, which went in before yours wouldn't process before yours.

Sabre refuses to give up the proprietary code to allow 3rd party vendors to modify their software. It's the same reason they have to run 117 checks off a separate program.

MagPBS

Were stuck in status quo land. The original window was written when FA's were in negotiations in 08 also so that they'd move their bid window back to give more time for pairings to be constructed. That didn't happen.

Both sides (company and union) agreed to a new time frame in the TA that moved up the bidding/processing and shorted the window. WITHOUT starting a debate on that TA we can't just arbitrarily move the window without a TA or LOA. We do have the ability (and use it quite often) to publish results when done early. Historically for the last few years we publish on the 21st.

MagPBS

I wasn't really involved in the paper process. But the level of access we have rivals most other airlines. When it comes to PBS we have more access, input and control then either Delta or Jet Blue. I've been to Navtech meetings with all these parties so I talk from first hand experience.

flapshalfspeed

Yep--IMHO the only people who should be allowed KCM/SIDA access with little to no screening prior to entering aiports/ramps/airplanes are:

1) Pilots
2) Persons entering an airport and/or travelling armed in the line of their duties as airport police, LEOs, etc.

These are the only two sets of individuals for whom it is unnecessary and redundant to screen for weapons & explosive devices, b/c pilots/LEOs/armed airport PD--by the nature of our jobs--have already been entrusted with deadly weapons in a secure environment, regardless of whether we're screened or not.

Rampers, FAs, gate agents, mechanics--anyone not authorized to carry a weapon or fly a plane in their regular line of work needs to be screened every time they walk into an airport, esp. prior to boarding an airliner.

MagPBS

And I'm going to have to walk a very very fine line on this. Part of the reason you don't see union people on boards like this (at any airline) is liability. With that said I AM NOT here with any kind of endorsement from the MAG ALPA. While I am a volunteer (and have been for almost 8 years in one way shape or form) I am not officially endorsed, encouraged, backed, etc by the MEC on what I say here.

I primarily created this account to bring a PBS expert online to help deal with the misinformation about PBS. Quite frankly it came down to come on here and try and correct things or continue to try and fix peoples bids that are entered based off of incorrect information. The debate over denial mode a few weeks ago was the final straw on my inability to just sit back and watch.

I have and will continue to tell the truth as I know it with regards to PBS, schedules, pairing production etc. I am not knowledgeable (nor should I be for that matter) on any union issues outside of scheduling. Having said that, after 8 years as a volunteer you do learn things so I’m also not saying I’m an idiot outside of scheduling matters.

Going forward each of you has to choose what to do with the information I hand out. Believe in it or not; use it or don’t. I can’t make you do anything or stop you from thinking anything that you already think. Those who believe in the black helicopters will still believe in them ever after I show hard proof that it’s not the case. But I can say I’ve had many a conversation over the years about the behind the scenes process of planning and most pilots come away with a lot more knowledge and all admit “I never considered/thought of that” then they did before we talked.