New Mesa Thread
08-14-2015, 01:40 PM
#461
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
"FO RATE INCREASED ALL TYPES (YEARS 2-9)"
Where are you getting 1%? Where are you getting "slap in the face?"
There isn't a raise specified, because it is much higher than 1%.
They just didn't have space to type out the specific raise for each of those eight years in the exec summary.
Chilllllllll.
Where are you getting 1%? Where are you getting "slap in the face?"
There isn't a raise specified, because it is much higher than 1%.
They just didn't have space to type out the specific raise for each of those eight years in the exec summary.
Chilllllllll.
08-14-2015, 01:46 PM
#462
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
Hey if you want to spend the next 5 years in foot-dragging negotiations for industry-average pay, under current book work rules, go for it if that's what works best for you! I'd prefer to lock in a small payraise/elimination of 50-seat basepay, and better work rules now, rather than spend the next 5-years in negotiations under current work rules.
08-14-2015, 02:01 PM
#463
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
The NMB has never, ever, ever taken into consideration the compensation of an executive team in the negotiating process of any airline in US history.
Is that fair? Heck no it isn't fair. But there is no provision in the RLA or the administrative law history of the NMB that has ever determined that executive compensation levels should be a factor in the collective bargaining process.
Like I said--you'll need a President further left than the current one to make that change happen at the NMB. Further left than Jimmy Carter/FDR. Don't see that happening in my lifetime (and don't want to).
Is that fair? Heck no it isn't fair. But there is no provision in the RLA or the administrative law history of the NMB that has ever determined that executive compensation levels should be a factor in the collective bargaining process.
Like I said--you'll need a President further left than the current one to make that change happen at the NMB. Further left than Jimmy Carter/FDR. Don't see that happening in my lifetime (and don't want to).
While we don't have a whole lot of leverage, we can at least voice our beliefs of our self worth, as I predict will happen, and by a big margin vote this POS down. Then again, we all came here knowing what kind of crappy pay and benefits we volunteered to fly for, and we're ok with it then, so maybe a slight improvement seems great to some.
JO wins either way. End result is he won't pay pilots much more either way it's voted. We won't get the improvements we want. He takes this company public, cashes out, and doesn't care about the looming implosion caused by inability to gain/retain pilots.
I was on the fence until the exsum came out. Now I'm a definite no. And I will vote further with my feet at my 2 year anniversary most likely, maybe to another airline, maybe to a real job, or back to school.
08-14-2015, 02:01 PM
#464
sippin' dat koolaid
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: gear slinger
Posts: 982
Not that I was expecting it, but it really would have been nice to have seen min day pay and decent hotel language in this contract. But this is a broke ass company, and I believe ALPA when they say there is no money left.
I'm not opposed at all to voting no at this point. If those running the company can't do so in such a manner as to provide industry average (or damn close) pay and work rules, then maybe the company shouldn't have the privilege of keeping its doors open per our own vote. I don't want to lose my job but I also don't want to consciously support a broken and inept business model.
But then again "sticking it to the man" and making lateral moves don't do much good for anyone.
I'm not opposed at all to voting no at this point. If those running the company can't do so in such a manner as to provide industry average (or damn close) pay and work rules, then maybe the company shouldn't have the privilege of keeping its doors open per our own vote. I don't want to lose my job but I also don't want to consciously support a broken and inept business model.
But then again "sticking it to the man" and making lateral moves don't do much good for anyone.
08-14-2015, 02:28 PM
#466
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
Oh--that's right--Bedford is simply giving back the flying he can't staff affordably, rather than giving his pilots a raise, or going to mainline and asking for more money.
08-14-2015, 02:33 PM
#468
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 175 Left
Posts: 1,539
In my experience I will tell you what will happen if we vote no too!
1) We will make the news as yet another pilot group not willing to work for nothing.
2) Once the airplane deliveries stop, no matter if we vote yes or no, and the FO's we currently have realize they won't get an upgrade and have to live under poverty wages, they will start to go to PSA, etc., cancellations will start due to lack of crew. Mesa will panic. They will do one of two things. Tell United and American we need more money, or two, send those planes to another regional. Gonna happen either way. By voting yes, guys still are not going to want to work here. So it does not matter. We would need a MUCH better FO pay scale for guys to stay. This is why we need to vote no until our FO pay matches the others.
3) Flaps will be downgraded back to the right seat if he ever makes it in the left.
4) Senior lifers do care that the FO's hold out for better too. It benefits all of us both now and in the long run. Its guys like Flaps who want you to vote the same as him (yes) so you help benefit him and get him is upgrade, but meanwhile selling out the rest.
5) The majors are almost maxed out on scope so they would just start sending planes from one to the next but as a FO if you jump ship, will you be able to climb that huge FO list to get that upgrade in time before cancellations at that new regional keep you at the bottom? Your best bet is to finish climbing the ladder at Mesa and because you can right now, hold out for better pay.
6) We don't need to go on strike. The cancellations from both Captains and FO's leaving will have the same effect.
7) Senior Captains were also once FO's and also once on Reserve. They want you to have better, not worse.
1) We will make the news as yet another pilot group not willing to work for nothing.
2) Once the airplane deliveries stop, no matter if we vote yes or no, and the FO's we currently have realize they won't get an upgrade and have to live under poverty wages, they will start to go to PSA, etc., cancellations will start due to lack of crew. Mesa will panic. They will do one of two things. Tell United and American we need more money, or two, send those planes to another regional. Gonna happen either way. By voting yes, guys still are not going to want to work here. So it does not matter. We would need a MUCH better FO pay scale for guys to stay. This is why we need to vote no until our FO pay matches the others.
3) Flaps will be downgraded back to the right seat if he ever makes it in the left.
4) Senior lifers do care that the FO's hold out for better too. It benefits all of us both now and in the long run. Its guys like Flaps who want you to vote the same as him (yes) so you help benefit him and get him is upgrade, but meanwhile selling out the rest.
5) The majors are almost maxed out on scope so they would just start sending planes from one to the next but as a FO if you jump ship, will you be able to climb that huge FO list to get that upgrade in time before cancellations at that new regional keep you at the bottom? Your best bet is to finish climbing the ladder at Mesa and because you can right now, hold out for better pay.
6) We don't need to go on strike. The cancellations from both Captains and FO's leaving will have the same effect.
7) Senior Captains were also once FO's and also once on Reserve. They want you to have better, not worse.
Might as well throw in a national senority list as your #8. lol.
08-14-2015, 02:37 PM
#470
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 175 Left
Posts: 1,539
In a weird twist of events, facebiter hits the nail ON THE HEAD on why Mesa has no money to offer us more than this.....
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