payingdues

Infinite now. Only a few airplanes left to be delivered. Soo uhh whenever you pass 700 people in front of you. New hires will not upgrade here.

mjpilot

Yep, burn it.

Navmode

Not to **** on your witch burning or anything, but the company doesn't go out of business if you don't accept the ta. If its voted down and we go to arbitration and they see that the company negotiated in good faith per their earnings, then guess what: nothing changes. We don't work for Skywest, AWAC, or anyone else. Just because what they were offered was much better, doesn't have any bearing on this being the best we're going to get. Your opinion of what you're worth aside, your decision will be rested upon whether or not you believe the union in saying there is no more to get.

NovemberBravo

I think they are getting at that in the long run Mesa won't attract new pilots, and the ones we have will leave for places that have better pay. The burning will start when we start canceling flights. Think about how many FOs that will feel lied to when they don't get their fast upgrade. Most guys believe this needs to pass for Mesa to secure more flying.

buddies8

Yeah cheaper.

flapshalfspeed

You said it yourself--it took 5 years of negotiations to get this TA. How long do you think it'll take to get an industry-average TA? Or an industry-leading one? Or even one just slightly better than this one? A decade?

Sorry to anyone who expected the union--whose hands are effectively tied by the NMB/RLA--to extract money that isn't there from the regional with the lowest profit margins in the country. If you're holding out for industry-average you are never going to get that TA from Mesa in your lifetime. If you want to make that much money go work for XJet/Skywest/Compass--they are all hiring. Why are you still here even talking about this?

I'm really, really confused at why people are so shocked. The only reason many of us have our Captain seats, and the only reason we still have airplanes to fly, is because we underbid everyone else in the past to get them.

I frankly don't care which way any of you vote--just please vote what's best for you, and filter out the angry tired voices of the senior Captains who are already making six figures and don't care about reserve rules, FO payrates, or securing new flying at all.

ScottyDo

I'm a little confused, if we do indeed have the lowest profit margins in the country, how is that exactly? I mean on top of that we probably have the lowest employee cost among the others as well. I know they keep saying that "the money isn't there". But how? We are a non 50 seater operation yet we rake in the lowest profit margins? I just don't get it if someone who knows more than I can clarify it for me.

Thanks

ScottyDo

Ah so it has to do with the contracts the company set up before hand got yas. Copy that ghost rider.

flapshalfspeed

From my own experience negotiating with NMB reps, I can tell you exactly what will happen if we reject this TA:

1) The company has provided independently-audited financial statements to ALPA already. This means they have a specific amount of money earmarked for a TA in their 5-year budget ($14.7 million to be precise). From the perspective of the NMB, this represents a good-faith act: letting the union know what amount of gains will not place the company in financial jeopardy over the next 5-years. In fact, compared to many airline managements the NMB deals with, this looks like an extremely generous act of good faith--so you aren't going to get anywhere crying about executive compensation. Is it unfair that JO/Fervada make so much more than us? Heck yes it is--but you aren't going to change any of it unless you takeover Congress, change the RLA/NMB, and go back in time and unelect Ronald Reagan.

2) So--$14.7 million--that is the hard number the company, supported by the full force of the NMB, is not going to budge on for five years. Given that number, over the next 5 years, MAG ALPA will continue to schedule negotiations meetings. In those meetings, if the union asks for a gain (i.e. a 5% raise for all pilots upfront), that gain must be offset by a savings (i.e. drop min days off to 10 for all pilots). Why? Becuase you can't go over the $14.7 million total budget (once again, unless the entire legal foundation/precedent of the NMB/RLA established over the last 60 years is changed).

3) During the 5-6 years of moving goal-posts around, we might get a TA with better pay (but poorer work rules), or with better work rules (but poorer pay). All the while, inflation (which is forecast to only increase over the next decade), will continue to erode our current payrates gradually over time. We won't get new flying, we won't go public, and if we lose pilots JO will simply give the flying he can't staff back to mainline (like RAH is doing), which would likely cause downgrades

Note: lifer senior Captains don't care about this outcome, because they'll still be making $100k+ getting 15+ days off a month with lots of vacation time and very low chances of getting furloughed

4) Eventually, if we get some hotheads in the MEC, we'll submit a proffer of arbitration to the NMB (essentially asking the NMB to arbitrarily determine the new contract, without a pilot or company vote at all). As insane as it sounds, the company might actually agree, since they've made plenty of good-faith moves and established a firm $14.7 million total cost of the contract. The NMB will essentially decide the new contract, which will look almost exactly like the one we have now. And neither us nor the company will have any say in the details of it.

Unless you literally elect a socialist or extremely leftist government to both houses of Congress and the White House (I personally don't want that to happen), and completely restructure the RLA/NMB negotiations process, and its restrictions on strikes, we are never, ever, ever going to be allowed to go on strike. Because we support the backbones of two of the three largest US airlines, Mesa will never, ever be released to go on strike. Get that idea out of your head (unless you're a socialist with a quixotic fantasy about that scenario playing out?)

Sorry for the long narrative--just giving you new guys an idea of what ALPA's options are after a rejected TA, when the company has negotiated "in good faith."

ScottyDo

When you come join me at mainline some day in about 15 years, I'll even let you fly a leg or two