New Mesa Thread
12-26-2015, 12:15 PM
#3321
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,602
Your best bet is to just work the year then leave. Probably better you don't leave under a year for when you apply to the non legacy airlines.
12-26-2015, 12:30 PM
#3322
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: Ball Turret Gunner
Posts: 297
As I posted before
Eligible for rehire is simply referring to the drug testing. If you fail a drug test then they checkride no box. Has nothing to do with training contract. Just don't fail a drug test here. Training contract is not enforceable if you live outside the state of Arizona. They can and will file paperwork with the court to scare you but no court will rule in their favor. It does not effect pria. If you pay them for training you are wasting your money. Contact a aopa aviation attorney if you have aopa. They will tell you the same thing.
12-26-2015, 12:35 PM
#3323
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: Ball Turret Gunner
Posts: 297
12-26-2015, 12:37 PM
#3324
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 519
I think "eligible for rehire" can mean more than just one thing. If you are terminated for any reason, and they don't want you back, the NO box gets checked. Doesn't mean you can't get hired elsewhere by any means. Just means they don't want you back.
Eligible for rehire is simply referring to the drug testing. If you fail a drug test then they checkride no box. Has nothing to do with training contract. Just don't fail a drug test here. Training contract is not enforceable if you live outside the state of Arizona. They can and will file paperwork with the court to scare you but no court will rule in their favor. It does not effect pria. If you pay them for training you are wasting your money. Contact a aopa aviation attorney if you have aopa. They will tell you the same thing.
12-26-2015, 03:42 PM
#3325
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 726
Any chance of sharing your reasons for leaving Mesa, or your background? PM if you'd like, I'm very interested in knowing what I'm jumping into. Having a training contract s...ks. frontier I think still has one and they don't pay for hotels in training.
I'm ready for the low pay and sitting on sh...t ready reserve. Unfortunately, most regionals and even some majors QOl is crap, as they have given up Qol for $$$. I think the 117 rules are better understood now than a year ago, hopefully scheduling doesn't abuse reservists too bad. I have my reasons for Mesa, compared to other regionals they offer me what I need. I have the 121 1000 TPIC large turbine 737 type. I have not heard from anybody other than long long range class with a few companies. its always best to take first training offer than wait months for a training date, while I go noncurrent. I plan to stay at Mesa until I upgrade, then I'll see what happens. if you need the money upfront and can wait for a slow upgrade and a flow, than Endeavor or Envoy maybe best. I can't wait for a flow, nor do I trust them, I'm too old.
I'm ready for the low pay and sitting on sh...t ready reserve. Unfortunately, most regionals and even some majors QOl is crap, as they have given up Qol for $$$. I think the 117 rules are better understood now than a year ago, hopefully scheduling doesn't abuse reservists too bad. I have my reasons for Mesa, compared to other regionals they offer me what I need. I have the 121 1000 TPIC large turbine 737 type. I have not heard from anybody other than long long range class with a few companies. its always best to take first training offer than wait months for a training date, while I go noncurrent. I plan to stay at Mesa until I upgrade, then I'll see what happens. if you need the money upfront and can wait for a slow upgrade and a flow, than Endeavor or Envoy maybe best. I can't wait for a flow, nor do I trust them, I'm too old.
I don't know if the courts would have ruled in their favor, but I have not found anything that would suggest that the promissory note is unenforceable. I offered to make payments but initially they refused, and then filed papers. Ultimately we came to a payment arrangement that paid the whole thing off in 6 or 7 months.
12-26-2015, 06:36 PM
#3327
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: Airbus FO
Posts: 279
Any chance of sharing your reasons for leaving Mesa, or your background? PM if you'd like, I'm very interested in knowing what I'm jumping into. Having a training contract s...ks. frontier I think still has one and they don't pay for hotels in training.
I'm ready for the low pay and sitting on sh...t ready reserve. Unfortunately, most regionals and even some majors QOl is crap, as they have given up Qol for $$$. I think the 117 rules are better understood now than a year ago, hopefully scheduling doesn't abuse reservists too bad. I have my reasons for Mesa, compared to other regionals they offer me what I need. I have the 121 1000 TPIC large turbine 737 type. I have not heard from anybody other than long long range class with a few companies. its always best to take first training offer than wait months for a training date, while I go noncurrent. I plan to stay at Mesa until I upgrade, then I'll see what happens. if you need the money upfront and can wait for a slow upgrade and a flow, than Endeavor or Envoy maybe best. I can't wait for a flow, nor do I trust them, I'm too old.
I'm ready for the low pay and sitting on sh...t ready reserve. Unfortunately, most regionals and even some majors QOl is crap, as they have given up Qol for $$$. I think the 117 rules are better understood now than a year ago, hopefully scheduling doesn't abuse reservists too bad. I have my reasons for Mesa, compared to other regionals they offer me what I need. I have the 121 1000 TPIC large turbine 737 type. I have not heard from anybody other than long long range class with a few companies. its always best to take first training offer than wait months for a training date, while I go noncurrent. I plan to stay at Mesa until I upgrade, then I'll see what happens. if you need the money upfront and can wait for a slow upgrade and a flow, than Endeavor or Envoy maybe best. I can't wait for a flow, nor do I trust them, I'm too old.
The upgrade time will be faster at Envoy then it will be at Mesa. You have about 550 FO's that have to upgrade at Mesa before you will. We only have about 70-80 more Captain seats coming so you will be betting on attrition at Mesa for the rest to get out of your way. No Flow means no movement. Probably looking like a 5 year plus upgrade now at Mesa if hired today. If not longer. Can you endure low pay for that long as an FO?
Envoy has movement with the flow of half the American class each month. Easy choice. I am not sure why you think they would be a longer upgrade. Outdated info?
Why do you think FO's are leaving Mesa for other regionals? It's a sign not to come here. They are not just leaving for the greater FO pay, it is because the upgrade time is probably going to be faster elsewhere. Our FO's get it. You need PIC. Unless Mesa gets a massive order of jets, or a ton of attrition in the Captain ranks, good luck enjoying the lowest FO pay in the industry for a long time.
Besides you say you don't mind the low pay and sitting ready reserve, yeah, heard that before.... You end up being the one complaining in the crew room everyday. No one is willing to sacrifice your life for low pay and ready reserve. If you are, you are a fool. If you come here, get ready for a year or more of Ready Reserve every day!
Last edited by wt932051; 12-26-2015 at 07:00 PM.
12-26-2015, 07:11 PM
#3328
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 519
Man, I want some of what you are smoking!! Are you an Envoy recruiter posting on the Mesa thread? Currently, Envoy reserve time is 2 years, and upgrade is around 6 or 7 years. Coming down, sure, but... If you think an Envoy upgrade is fast... Words escape me.
Most junior CA at Mesa is August 2014. At Envoy, it's July 2007.
Most junior CA at Mesa is August 2014. At Envoy, it's July 2007.
I think you need to redo your homework, you have it wrong.
The upgrade time will be faster at Envoy then it will be at Mesa. You have about 550 FO's that have to upgrade at Mesa before you will. We only have about 70-80 more Captain seats coming so you will be betting on attrition at Mesa for the rest to get out of your way. No Flow means no movement. Probably looking like a 5 year plus upgrade now at Mesa if hired today. If not longer. Can you endure low pay for that long as an FO?
Envoy has movement with the flow of half the American class each month. Easy choice. I am not sure why you think they would be a longer upgrade. Outdated info?
Why do you think FO's are leaving Mesa for other regionals? It's a sign not to come here. They are not just leaving for the greater FO pay, it is because the upgrade time is probably going to be faster elsewhere. Our FO's get it. You need PIC. Unless Mesa gets a massive order of jets, or a ton of attrition in the Captain ranks, good luck enjoying the lowest FO pay in the industry for a long time.
Besides you say you don't mind the low pay and sitting ready reserve, yeah, heard that before.... You end up being the one complaining in the crew room everyday. No one is willing to sacrifice your life for low pay and ready reserve. If you are, you are a fool. If you come here, get ready for a year or more of Ready Reserve every day!
The upgrade time will be faster at Envoy then it will be at Mesa. You have about 550 FO's that have to upgrade at Mesa before you will. We only have about 70-80 more Captain seats coming so you will be betting on attrition at Mesa for the rest to get out of your way. No Flow means no movement. Probably looking like a 5 year plus upgrade now at Mesa if hired today. If not longer. Can you endure low pay for that long as an FO?
Envoy has movement with the flow of half the American class each month. Easy choice. I am not sure why you think they would be a longer upgrade. Outdated info?
Why do you think FO's are leaving Mesa for other regionals? It's a sign not to come here. They are not just leaving for the greater FO pay, it is because the upgrade time is probably going to be faster elsewhere. Our FO's get it. You need PIC. Unless Mesa gets a massive order of jets, or a ton of attrition in the Captain ranks, good luck enjoying the lowest FO pay in the industry for a long time.
Besides you say you don't mind the low pay and sitting ready reserve, yeah, heard that before.... You end up being the one complaining in the crew room everyday. No one is willing to sacrifice your life for low pay and ready reserve. If you are, you are a fool. If you come here, get ready for a year or more of Ready Reserve every day!
12-26-2015, 07:31 PM
#3329
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: Airbus FO
Posts: 279
Man, I want some of what you are smoking!! Are you an Envoy recruiter posting on the Mesa thread? Currently, Envoy reserve time is 2 years, and upgrade is around 6 or 7 years. Coming down, sure, but... If you think an Envoy upgrade is fast... Words escape me.
Most junior CA at Mesa is August 2014. At Envoy, it's July 2007.
Most junior CA at Mesa is August 2014. At Envoy, it's July 2007.
Do you understand what past verse present is? You need to stop comparing past as if it is the future...
Simple math dude. Simple math. Look at the flow at Envoy. Look at the attrition and orders remaining at Mesa. I have been in the industry way longer then you probably have. I lol when I have FO's saying they were promised a quick upgrade. Did you do the math? That is the only way you will truly know. If not you are driving into fog.
Please tell me where my math is wrong??? You only stated past history. I stated future math and upgrade potential. If you believe if you were hired today that it is the same as being hired in August 2014 at Mesa or hired at Envoy in 2007, you are smoking some good stuff. lol
Last edited by wt932051; 12-26-2015 at 07:44 PM.
12-26-2015, 07:48 PM
#3330
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 519
Dude, I mean, for real, dude... I defer to your experience, as I have none in the 121 world. I understand past does not equal future. I also understand that there will be less regionals in 12-24 months than there are today.
Look at the flow at Envoy? Feel free to explain that one. 30 pilots per month to AA. 360 per year. Best case. Meanwhile, sitting on reserve at ENY and flying 30 hours per month nets one 360 hours per year. Or even 500, if you wish to be generous. I am pretty sure NO ONE at Mesa flies that little even today.
It seems you think all CAs will stay at Mesa, based on your projections. While that MIGHT happen, I have my doubts. I have a feeling Mesa will continue to have a pretty large amount of attrition. But that's just my outside view looking in, and what I have read about the CEO's approach to hiring and pay.
Look at the flow at Envoy? Feel free to explain that one. 30 pilots per month to AA. 360 per year. Best case. Meanwhile, sitting on reserve at ENY and flying 30 hours per month nets one 360 hours per year. Or even 500, if you wish to be generous. I am pretty sure NO ONE at Mesa flies that little even today.
It seems you think all CAs will stay at Mesa, based on your projections. While that MIGHT happen, I have my doubts. I have a feeling Mesa will continue to have a pretty large amount of attrition. But that's just my outside view looking in, and what I have read about the CEO's approach to hiring and pay.
You are short sighted dude. No kidding these are the current junior CA. Do you not GET that that was if YOU were hired back then??? If hired now, it is TOTALLY different dynamics.
Do you understand what past verse present is? You need to stop comparing past as if it is the future...
Simple math dude. Simple math. Look at the flow at Envoy. Look at the attrition and orders remaining at Mesa. I have been in the industry way longer then you probably have. I lol when I have FO's saying they were promised a quick upgrade. Did you do the math? That is the only way you will truly know. If not you are driving into fog.
Please tell me where my math is wrong??? You only stated past history. I stated future math and upgrade potential. If you believe if you were hired today that it is the same as being hired two years ago, you are smoking some good stuff. lol
Do you understand what past verse present is? You need to stop comparing past as if it is the future...
Simple math dude. Simple math. Look at the flow at Envoy. Look at the attrition and orders remaining at Mesa. I have been in the industry way longer then you probably have. I lol when I have FO's saying they were promised a quick upgrade. Did you do the math? That is the only way you will truly know. If not you are driving into fog.
Please tell me where my math is wrong??? You only stated past history. I stated future math and upgrade potential. If you believe if you were hired today that it is the same as being hired two years ago, you are smoking some good stuff. lol
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