Originally Posted by squall line

Mesa requires all RNAV SIDS to be flown with the autopilot on.

Originally Posted by adspilot

Do you also require RNAV arrivals to be flown with autopilot on?

I was flying into DFW a couple months back and ATC asked one of your guys to turn right for spacing. The guy wouldn't accept it because his heading bug was MEL'd. Hey said, "I can't turn without turning the autopilot off."

I'm thinking to myself what is he going to do when he has to get vectored onto final.

Originally Posted by cleareddirect13

Something doesn't sound right. How could you have the heading bug MELd but not the entire autopilot? I smell BS.

Originally Posted by adspilot

Do you also require RNAV arrivals to be flown with autopilot on?

I was flying into DFW a couple months back and ATC asked one of your guys to turn right for spacing. The guy wouldn't accept it because his heading bug was MEL'd. Hey said, "I can't turn without turning the autopilot off."

I'm thinking to myself what is he going to do when he has to get vectored onto final.

Originally Posted by ScottyDo

RNAV arrivals are required to be flown with the autopilot on. Now if you get vectored off for a minuet are you still technically on an RNAV arrival? I don't see whats so hard about clicking off the autopilot, flying the assigned heading, then turning it back on once you rejoin or get direct to a fix again.

Originally Posted by flapshalfspeed

I can't tell you how many times you guys (ppl who like to hand fly) have oversped the flaps, blown through an altitude/airspeed restriction, lost situational awareness, etc.--all because you're still in CFI mode putting around rural Texas... except it's an EJet--in a congested terminal environment--in bad weather--on an RNAV SID.

If we're taking off in hard IMC at night being vectored and speed/altitude restricted a bunch--and there are red cells all around IAH, I need to be looking at radar and talking to ATC. It's a pain in the ass to also have to monitor some new hire's hand-flying practice session.

The 135 guys always push back on this like "oh I've done this in a KingAir a thousand times in worse weather." Guess what? I don't care--this is 121 passenger ops and there are a billion datapoints being recorded in realtime. If ANYthing happens resulting in an ASAP meeting, the first thing the FAA is going to say is "why weren't you using the automation."

There's a reason the Mesa GOM, per guidance from the FAA SAFO, requires all RNAVs to be flown with the AP on as soon as possible.

It's pretty crazy how clueless some of our "new to 121" Captains are--I bet we have guys accepting RNAV arrivals with autopilot-inop aircraft all the time.

Practice your hand-flying at small airports in good weather (or when you get an AP-inop aircraft, which happens often enough to maintain proficiency).

Originally Posted by RV5M

What about RNAV SIDS where you end up getting a heading on takeoff then direct to a fix later? Happens a lot in IAH. I see that hand flown often. Does that count as being on the SID?


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Originally Posted by word302

OK. So being able to pilot an aircraft to ATP standards must not be a requirement in your training department.

Originally Posted by word302

Ask yourself why this requirement came about. Were too many guys having issues flying these procedures by hand? So instead of enhancing training to enhance skills, the answer your shop came up with is more automation.

Originally Posted by tinman1

And you claim ignorance when other users accuse you of trolling. Classy.



Go back and reread his post. These procedures are in our GOM per FAA guidance *hint hint*. Much in the same way that your company now has a cruise checklist to verify the cruise mach number, among other things "suggested" by the FAA. It is very foolish to chalk it up as a training department failure, when you really have no idea as to the motive or reasoning behind it all.