New Mesa Thread
10-03-2015, 10:37 AM
#1611
Chief Engineer
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 815
Airline execs aren't going to tell a codeshare partner to "pound sand." That phrase reflects the juvenile, simplistic mindset of our current union leadership.
There is a vast disparity between what it would cost for mainline to operate our fleet themselves, and what we are paid to operate.
By drawing a line in the mud, regional pilots are gradually boxing legacy management into a choice--do you want cheap feed subject to rolling staffing shortages? Or do you want expensive feed that's reliably staffed (by bringing it in house).
Think about the business decision United has to make if Mesa finally hits the bottom and FOs start bailing:
1) Send the jets to another regional (every other regional capable of running and staffing an EJet program costs much more than us)
2) Bring the jets to mainline--extremely expensive and probably not profitable on many routes/departure times on our gauge of equipment
3) Bump Mesa's FFD margins up somewhere between those negotiated by Skywest/TSA/RAH and our current margin
There is a vast disparity between what it would cost for mainline to operate our fleet themselves, and what we are paid to operate.
By drawing a line in the mud, regional pilots are gradually boxing legacy management into a choice--do you want cheap feed subject to rolling staffing shortages? Or do you want expensive feed that's reliably staffed (by bringing it in house).
Think about the business decision United has to make if Mesa finally hits the bottom and FOs start bailing:
1) Send the jets to another regional (every other regional capable of running and staffing an EJet program costs much more than us)
2) Bring the jets to mainline--extremely expensive and probably not profitable on many routes/departure times on our gauge of equipment
3) Bump Mesa's FFD margins up somewhere between those negotiated by Skywest/TSA/RAH and our current margin
10-03-2015, 10:45 AM
#1613
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
But every new hire that walks in the door validates management's position--you don't need to make any changes
10-03-2015, 11:03 AM
#1614
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 91
Airline execs aren't going to tell a codeshare partner to "pound sand." That phrase reflects the juvenile, simplistic mindset of our current union leadership.
There is a vast disparity between what it would cost for mainline to operate our fleet themselves, and what we are paid to operate.
By drawing a line in the mud, regional pilots are gradually boxing legacy management into a choice--do you want cheap feed subject to rolling staffing shortages? Or do you want expensive feed that's reliably staffed (by bringing it in house).
Think about the business decision United has to make if Mesa finally hits the bottom and FOs start bailing:
1) Send the jets to another regional (every other regional capable of running and staffing an EJet program costs much more than us)
2) Bring the jets to mainline--extremely expensive and probably not profitable on many routes/departure times on our gauge of equipment
3) Bump Mesa's FFD margins up somewhere between those negotiated by Skywest/TSA/RAH and our current margin
There is a vast disparity between what it would cost for mainline to operate our fleet themselves, and what we are paid to operate.
By drawing a line in the mud, regional pilots are gradually boxing legacy management into a choice--do you want cheap feed subject to rolling staffing shortages? Or do you want expensive feed that's reliably staffed (by bringing it in house).
Think about the business decision United has to make if Mesa finally hits the bottom and FOs start bailing:
1) Send the jets to another regional (every other regional capable of running and staffing an EJet program costs much more than us)
2) Bring the jets to mainline--extremely expensive and probably not profitable on many routes/departure times on our gauge of equipment
3) Bump Mesa's FFD margins up somewhere between those negotiated by Skywest/TSA/RAH and our current margin
10-03-2015, 11:25 AM
#1615
Chief Engineer
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 815
When Colgan/Pinnacle entered bankruptcy United was more than happy to renegotiate more lucrative contracts to make the flying profitable. United did not want that flying to go away or switch to another carrier. Unfortunately Delta refused to financially support Pinnacle during the bankruptcy if they continued to fly for United. Pinnacle had a lot more aircraft flying got Delta than United which is why Delta won in the end. They didn't want to financially support someone flying for their competitor. So to sit there and say that mainline management will tell them to go pound sand is completely wrong. In fact they did negotiate short term contracts for Colgan that were much more profitable so they could have time to come up with a long term plan. It has happened before, it can happen again.
10-03-2015, 01:11 PM
#1616
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: CRJ 900
Posts: 131
Those are some great points. Is our negotiating committee really that stupid to bring that up as a talking point when talking with management. Or did they just buy that argument of "oh we can't go to mainline and ask for more money". Our MEC just sounds weak, either that our they were getting some extra $$$ to try and sell us that poop of a TA.
10-03-2015, 01:34 PM
#1617
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 304
Airline execs aren't going to tell a codeshare partner to "pound sand." That phrase reflects the juvenile, simplistic mindset of our current union leadership.
There is a vast disparity between what it would cost for mainline to operate our fleet themselves, and what we are paid to operate.
By drawing a line in the mud, regional pilots are gradually boxing legacy management into a choice--do you want cheap feed subject to rolling staffing shortages? Or do you want expensive feed that's reliably staffed (by bringing it in house).
Think about the business decision United has to make if Mesa finally hits the bottom and FOs start bailing:
1) Send the jets to another regional (every other regional capable of running and staffing an EJet program costs much more than us)
2) Bring the jets to mainline--extremely expensive and probably not profitable on many routes/departure times on our gauge of equipment
3) Bump Mesa's FFD margins up somewhere between those negotiated by Skywest/TSA/RAH and our current margin
There is a vast disparity between what it would cost for mainline to operate our fleet themselves, and what we are paid to operate.
By drawing a line in the mud, regional pilots are gradually boxing legacy management into a choice--do you want cheap feed subject to rolling staffing shortages? Or do you want expensive feed that's reliably staffed (by bringing it in house).
Think about the business decision United has to make if Mesa finally hits the bottom and FOs start bailing:
1) Send the jets to another regional (every other regional capable of running and staffing an EJet program costs much more than us)
2) Bring the jets to mainline--extremely expensive and probably not profitable on many routes/departure times on our gauge of equipment
3) Bump Mesa's FFD margins up somewhere between those negotiated by Skywest/TSA/RAH and our current margin
Although for point 3, it's more than just "somewhere in between", it's going to need to be very close to Skywest/TSA/RAH. We haven't been in an environment where airlines compete for pilots. Now we are. It's a whole new ballgame. That means a whole new set of rules.
10-03-2015, 02:08 PM
#1619
Chief Engineer
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 815
The bigger question is why would management ever go back to their Major partners and ask for more money. Even if they did get more money from United or American they have no obligation or incentive to up their offer to us. We said no to the TA and have stood our ground that we will not voluntarily accept a poor pay and work rules. I am proud that we won't voluntarily roll over for a poor offer. Unfortunately we have no leverage to force a better deal. We can negotiate until our face is blue, replace the union reps, replace the union, but until flights don't get completed, or people start leaving in massive droves that dramatically effect the operation the company has no need to budge. We will never get released to strike, ever! The next vote available to you will be the one with your feet.
10-03-2015, 03:12 PM
#1620
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
The bigger question is why would management ever go back to their Major partners and ask for more money. Even if they did get more money from United or American they have no obligation or incentive to up their offer to us. We said no to the TA and have stood our ground that we will not voluntarily accept a poor pay and work rules. I am proud that we won't voluntarily roll over for a poor offer. Unfortunately we have no leverage to force a better deal. We can negotiate until our face is blue, replace the union reps, replace the union, but until flights don't get completed, or people start leaving in massive droves that dramatically effect the operation the company has no need to budge. We will never get released to strike, ever! The next vote available to you will be the one with your feet.
I've already said multiple times that the only way they'll even consider giving us a dime more is if new hires stop showing up or cancelled flights start costing them money. Given that the upgrade train still seems to be rolling (10 more EJet CAs and a handful of CRJ in all bases), I don't see a big exodus coming for at least another year.
I've been on an NC before, but thanks for telling me how negotiations work, bro.
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