Mesa
06-09-2015, 06:42 AM
#8311
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 555
Mesa
Isn't it though!? But...unfortunately, it's totally true and that's the way it is...sometime's when you put your point in a different context people understand it better.
Why is it that pilots begin their career as captains in a large jet (after a very very short stint as a first officer for a few years) so they can get enough experience to become a first officer in another large jet? Finally, they become a real captain with half their career (15 or so years) behind them.
Seven years as a captain is experienced only if he had ten or fifteen years of co pilot experience first...otherwise he's just being used by the system for cheap labor at co pilot pay when he should be spending the first half (approximately) of his career as a first officer.
I'm not judging this individual, I'm just pointing out how stupid and backward the whole system is. It's ironic though that this happened at Buffalo.
Why is it that pilots begin their career as captains in a large jet (after a very very short stint as a first officer for a few years) so they can get enough experience to become a first officer in another large jet? Finally, they become a real captain with half their career (15 or so years) behind them.
Seven years as a captain is experienced only if he had ten or fifteen years of co pilot experience first...otherwise he's just being used by the system for cheap labor at co pilot pay when he should be spending the first half (approximately) of his career as a first officer.
I'm not judging this individual, I'm just pointing out how stupid and backward the whole system is. It's ironic though that this happened at Buffalo.
No, it absolutely isn't true. Hiring minimums don't equate to qualifications. If United hired at 1,500 hours, many regional first officers would be just as successful in their first year. It's the exact same job. Unfortunately, screening at the regional level isn't as rigorous.
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06-09-2015, 07:24 AM
#8313
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Position: Mannin' deez blenps
Posts: 193
06-09-2015, 08:02 AM
#8314
sippin' dat koolaid
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: gear slinger
Posts: 982
I'm a PHX FO, but I've done a few turns through DFW and let's just say it leaves a little to be desired. On one of those occasions every single Mesa CRJ was grounded for a lav waste compartment AD and we sat for 3 hours waiting for mx to show up.
Envoy ground crews seem to be the other half of the disastrous equation though. At the request of the CA, I went to grab the release and had to talk to three different gate agents to get it. Nobody seemed to know which computer to use or which printer it was sending it to. Passengers all boarded and ready to go but nobody could figure out how to get the paperwork in a timely manner.
Luckily for us AA doesn't give a rats ass about performance or passenger satisfaction, so unless we get really expensive I don't see any of this being a problem.
Envoy ground crews seem to be the other half of the disastrous equation though. At the request of the CA, I went to grab the release and had to talk to three different gate agents to get it. Nobody seemed to know which computer to use or which printer it was sending it to. Passengers all boarded and ready to go but nobody could figure out how to get the paperwork in a timely manner.
Luckily for us AA doesn't give a rats ass about performance or passenger satisfaction, so unless we get really expensive I don't see any of this being a problem.
06-09-2015, 08:23 AM
#8315
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
I'm a PHX FO, but I've done a few turns through DFW and let's just say it leaves a little to be desired. On one of those occasions every single Mesa CRJ was grounded for a lav waste compartment AD and we sat for 3 hours waiting for mx to show up.
Envoy ground crews seem to be the other half of the disastrous equation though. At the request of the CA, I went to grab the release and had to talk to three different gate agents to get it. Nobody seemed to know which computer to use or which printer it was sending it to. Passengers all boarded and ready to go but nobody could figure out how to get the paperwork in a timely manner.
Luckily for us AA doesn't give a rats ass about performance or passenger satisfaction, so unless we get really expensive I don't see any of this being a problem.
Envoy ground crews seem to be the other half of the disastrous equation though. At the request of the CA, I went to grab the release and had to talk to three different gate agents to get it. Nobody seemed to know which computer to use or which printer it was sending it to. Passengers all boarded and ready to go but nobody could figure out how to get the paperwork in a timely manner.
Luckily for us AA doesn't give a rats ass about performance or passenger satisfaction, so unless we get really expensive I don't see any of this being a problem.
It's about to get ALOT worse. Every year once the weather breaks 90, as it did this week, rampers start dropping like flies.
06-09-2015, 08:58 AM
#8316
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: CFI
Posts: 93
We must be fat on FOs this month for some reason.
06-09-2015, 09:03 AM
#8317
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 236
Mesa has no staffing issues with the pilots. Read between the lines.
06-09-2015, 09:59 AM
#8318
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 455
Isn't it though!? But...unfortunately, it's totally true and that's the way it is...sometime's when you put your point in a different context people understand it better.
Why is it that pilots begin their career as captains in a large jet (after a very very short stint as a first officer for a few years) so they can get enough experience to become a first officer in another large jet? Finally, they become a real captain with half their career (15 or so years) behind them.
Seven years as a captain is experienced only if he had ten or fifteen years of co pilot experience first...otherwise he's just being used by the system for cheap labor at co pilot pay when he should be spending the first half (approximately) of his career as a first officer.
I'm not judging this individual, I'm just pointing out how stupid and backward the whole system is. It's ironic though that this happened at Buffalo.
Why is it that pilots begin their career as captains in a large jet (after a very very short stint as a first officer for a few years) so they can get enough experience to become a first officer in another large jet? Finally, they become a real captain with half their career (15 or so years) behind them.
Seven years as a captain is experienced only if he had ten or fifteen years of co pilot experience first...otherwise he's just being used by the system for cheap labor at co pilot pay when he should be spending the first half (approximately) of his career as a first officer.
I'm not judging this individual, I'm just pointing out how stupid and backward the whole system is. It's ironic though that this happened at Buffalo.
No, it absolutely isn't true. Hiring minimums don't equate to qualifications. If United hired at 1,500 hours, many regional first officers would be just as successful in their first year. It's the exact same job. Unfortunately, screening at the regional level isn't as rigorous.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Additionally, you go from the left seat of an RJ to the right seat of a 737 or Airbus because that's what your new seniority can hold. Sure you went from the left seat back to the right seat but chances are you'll be making more in the right seat of major than the left seat of a regional. Starting pay at UA is $70/hr 1st year and jumps over $100/hr 2nd year. Not to mention the work rules, retirement, etc.
I will agree that it is backward, and I'm all for the flying done by regionals coming back to the mainline. In fact, it slowly is. The 319's at UA are moving in to cover what the 70-76 seaters are doing, and the 70-76 seaters are moving to cover the 50 seaters that are getting parked. Word is DAL's TA lowers the cap for DCI from 450 hulls to 425, and UA is next up at the plate so we'll hopefully drop to 425 or better.
06-09-2015, 11:03 AM
#8319
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: ERJ CA
Posts: 1,082
And ground services (staffed by Envoy). Admittedly, they have been improving, but are nowhere near acceptable for a major hub. We routinely get far better service at outstations. Absolutely no hustle among most rampers at DFW--and by "hustle" I mean moving with a sense of urgency, not the Urban Dictionary version. To most of Envoy's rampers, an aircraft waiting to be parked is not something to attend to quickly.
Just a couple weeks ago, we landed right before a nasty squall line hit the airport. We waited just off the gate for 10 minutes when the ramp closed due to the lightning threat, and then we waited another hour and 10 minutes, with an engine running (APU was inop), before the ramp was reopened and we were parked. I know damn well that the rampers wasted those 10 minutes inside, telling themselves "they're just gonna close the ramp".
But yeah, Mesa needs to stop treating their FAs like crap and pay them more, and they need to start being a little more proactive on maintenance.
Just a couple weeks ago, we landed right before a nasty squall line hit the airport. We waited just off the gate for 10 minutes when the ramp closed due to the lightning threat, and then we waited another hour and 10 minutes, with an engine running (APU was inop), before the ramp was reopened and we were parked. I know damn well that the rampers wasted those 10 minutes inside, telling themselves "they're just gonna close the ramp".
But yeah, Mesa needs to stop treating their FAs like crap and pay them more, and they need to start being a little more proactive on maintenance.
06-09-2015, 11:17 AM
#8320
Chief Engineer
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 815
And ground services (staffed by Envoy). Admittedly, they have been improving, but are nowhere near acceptable for a major hub. We routinely get far better service at outstations. Absolutely no hustle among most rampers at DFW--and by "hustle" I mean moving with a sense of urgency, not the Urban Dictionary version. To most of Envoy's rampers, an aircraft waiting to be parked is not something to attend to quickly.
Just a couple weeks ago, we landed right before a nasty squall line hit the airport. We waited just off the gate for 10 minutes when the ramp closed due to the lightning threat, and then we waited another hour and 10 minutes, with an engine running (APU was inop), before the ramp was reopened and we were parked. I know damn well that the rampers wasted those 10 minutes inside, telling themselves "they're just gonna close the ramp".
But yeah, Mesa needs to stop treating their FAs like crap and pay them more, and they need to start being a little more proactive on maintenance.
Just a couple weeks ago, we landed right before a nasty squall line hit the airport. We waited just off the gate for 10 minutes when the ramp closed due to the lightning threat, and then we waited another hour and 10 minutes, with an engine running (APU was inop), before the ramp was reopened and we were parked. I know damn well that the rampers wasted those 10 minutes inside, telling themselves "they're just gonna close the ramp".
But yeah, Mesa needs to stop treating their FAs like crap and pay them more, and they need to start being a little more proactive on maintenance.
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