Originally Posted by CBreezy

This is the single most inflammatory thing I've ever heard. Every single person who is new to air carrier ops is going to struggle getting used to the flow. It doesn't matter if you're a military pilot, a corporate pilot, or a CFI. It's a completely different world. Military pilots don't fly into O'hare or JFK. They are too busy getting shot at where there is little to no infrastructure. And anyone who says they are "awful" has no concept of what they are capable of. If anything, most civilian captains I flew with were incompetent and some of the worst "leaders" I've ever seen. They can't express what they want so they just do it themselves. I'd be willing to bet that you think 25 hours of IOE is enough to cover all the bases of every situation you could experience and you shouldn't have to give tips or help out the FO after that because you "aren't getting paid to do that."

Most military pilots could fly circles around 10 year captains at the regionals.

Originally Posted by dfwflyboy

lol I didn't realize military carries 50-76 paying civilian passengers around :P It's easy to not care about 400 hours when you just eject and there's no one to care about besides me, myself, and I.

and XJT hires new FOs from the military (that are just getting recency from us) and the are awful. Most can't talk on the radio....."wait, who is this? Ground? what do I say to them?" "what do I tell ramp now? where am I?"

Originally Posted by dfwflyboy

lol I didn't realize military carries 50-76 paying civilian passengers around :P It's easy to not care about 400 hours when you just eject and there's no one to care about besides me, myself, and I.

and XJT hires new FOs from the military (that are just getting recency from us) and the are awful. Most can't talk on the radio....."wait, who is this? Ground? what do I say to them?" "what do I tell ramp now? where am I?"

Originally Posted by dfwflyboy

lol I didn't realize military carries 50-76 paying civilian passengers around :P It's easy to not care about 400 hours when you just eject and there's no one to care about besides me, myself, and I.

and XJT hires new FOs from the military (that are just getting recency from us) and the are awful. Most can't talk on the radio....."wait, who is this? Ground? what do I say to them?" "what do I tell ramp now? where am I?"

Originally Posted by Pullout

I'm with wt... for the most part.

If this new proposal sucks, which it most likely will, vote no. If it's good, vote yes. (Sucks=Still below industry standard) My second grade teacher taught me a very valuable quote that was along the lines of, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again."

I'm one of those old crusty downgrade captains (young 30's) that was brought up to fight for what I know is right and what I believe. I've got almost a dozen recs, a bachelors degree, a few thousand hours PIC, volunteer work 4-6 days a month plus a lot more than most have. No call. But I'm sure the young guns that think I and my fellow friends/coworkers in the same boat, will get in as soon as they get that precious PIC. (Please thank your parents for giving a trophy to every kid no matter the result win or loss)

Unless you're at a Skywest INC, a different regional or can check one of two boxes white males can't, you might want to mentally prepare yourself for what's about not to happen to your career. You're not the only one TRULY TRYING to move on. Let's talk in two years and see how you feel at Mesa. Do research on who has left Mesa for a legacy in the past 6 months.

If you're a quitter and the proposal sucks, vote yes for that extra pop tart a year. So many more have sacrificed so much more than we ever could. Goodnight all.

Originally Posted by flapshalfspeed

I have never seen a rejected regional TA do anything other than cost the pilot group more money in the long-run, and benefit other pilot groups with less spine. A rejected TA immediately resets the foot-dragging by management teams who are not afraid of the NMB or ALPA at all. How many regionals have been released to self-help within 5-10 years of rejecting a TA? How many legacies have simply shifted around flying when a group rejected marginal increases in pay?

Do you know who benefitted most from Envoy's stand for justice? It wasn't the Envoy pilots, it wasn't all regional pilots, it was PSA & Piedmont. Unless there is a national seniority list, an ALPA national regime bold enough to reject any regional TA that lowers the bar, or an NMB that actually releases regional pilot groups to strike ever, then it is patently stupid to reject any TA. In such a broken, dysfunctional, uncoordinated quagmire of regional pilot groups, rejecting a TA simply incentivizes other pilot groups to take concessions and thus lowers the bar even further!!!

Is Republic back at the table with RAH's union, begging for a second chance to give them a raise? No. How did the Envoy stand for justice work out? It sure as heck didn't end up "raising the bar."

Back up your positions with historical data on the financial and career outcomes of rejected TAs at regional 121 carriers since the 1980s and I'll consider your position. I think you'll see that making a stand at the regional level never works out. Regional feed is, by design, set up to be fragmented and distributed among lowest-bidders, with contract durations on RFPs overlapped to provide maximum "ratchet-down" capability.

Lastly, if you want to devote your backbone and indignation towards something that would actually raise the bar, start a petition of all regional unions to pressure their MECs into a national Memorandum of Understanding--a binding agreement that no MEC of any US 121 airline will ever sign off on a TA with payrates below specified amounts (with inflation adjustments included).

Spend your time and emotions arguing for something that could actually raise the bar. Rejecting a TA at Mesa isn't going to.

Originally Posted by dfwflyboy

lol I didn't realize military carries 50-76 paying civilian passengers around :P It's easy to not care about 400 hours when you just eject and there's no one to care about besides me, myself, and I.

and XJT hires new FOs from the military (that are just getting recency from us) and the are awful. Most can't talk on the radio....."wait, who is this? Ground? what do I say to them?" "what do I tell ramp now? where am I?"

Originally Posted by KYhawkdriver

I literally had to wait to get home to my computer because I had to gather my thoughts. First, you are the biggest loser I have ever seen on this forum and that is really saying something. Second, as a military pilot, I flew into more class B airspace in my first 250 hours than most CFI's fly into their entire careers. I have done so at speeds higher than the landing speed of many RJ's, under NVG's that reduce my peripheral vision down to 40 degrees, in a formation of 4, within two rotor disks of each other. Your comment about radio procedures is so ridiculous that I honestly think that you are not even a pilot. What class airspace are most military installations in? Do you think that we just sit out in uncontrolled areas so we don't have to get a clearance before we depart. I am trying to remember what that person is that I talk to every time I need to move to the active. That's right, now I remember, its ground. And who is that person that clears me for take off? Oh that's right, its the tower. You are the perfect example of why our profiles on here should require names. I would honestly pay my way to DFW just to pummel your damn face in. The truth is, you are a weak little nothing that is going to open your mouth and spew your garbage in front of the wrong person and pay for it severely. I only hope that the mods leave this on here long enough for you to read this. In fact, why don't you private message me and lets have this talk just between us. I would be glad to square you away. Why don't your enlighten us as to where you received your high quality training? The way you talk it must have been flying patterns at JFK or perhaps Newark? Its 9:30 in the morning and I am going to get a beer because I cannot let somebody like you kick my weekend off to a bad start.

Originally Posted by dfwflyboy

lol I didn't realize military carries 50-76 paying civilian passengers around :P It's easy to not care about 400 hours when you just eject and there's no one to care about besides me, myself, and I.

and XJT hires new FOs from the military (that are just getting recency from us) and the are awful. Most can't talk on the radio....."wait, who is this? Ground? what do I say to them?" "what do I tell ramp now? where am I?"

Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet

Of course we would see a post like this on the Mesa forum. Coming from the worst pilots in the industry.