Mesa
05-18-2015, 05:29 AM
#7941
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 84
Why? he's absolutely right. Unless you want to make a lifelong career at the Regional's, get what you can in your contract. Be it a little more pay or QOL, fly your time and move onto bigger and better things. It looks like the Regional's are going to finally be that stepping stone they've always preached about.
05-18-2015, 05:31 AM
#7942
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 167
The picture you're trying to paint of naive FNG new hires bending over and taking it is completely inaccurate...in fact, a huge percentage of recent Mesa hires are the exact opposite--we drew a line in the sand at our last companies, paid the price for it, and realized it wasn't worth losing years of our lives, our seats, and ultimately our jobs.
You do realize how many former Republic/Pinnacolaba/Eagle pilots make up the bottom half of the current MAG seniority list, right? We all know what happens when senior lifers tell the company to pound sand, and we all came here to get away from the misery that ensues.
You do realize how many former Republic/Pinnacolaba/Eagle pilots make up the bottom half of the current MAG seniority list, right? We all know what happens when senior lifers tell the company to pound sand, and we all came here to get away from the misery that ensues.
05-18-2015, 08:10 AM
#7943
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 455
First, I have put in the extra effort for a Legacy or good major. That is what I want. You my friend have been hired at an entirely different time under way better conditions then when I was. So don't give me that crap. I'm tired of this know it all attitude. 1000 pic is not going to cut it. It's just not that easy but it is getting easier again. 10+ letters of rec and that still was not enough only 3 years ago to get on with Allegiant. Thought Mesa was going to go under. Times have changed again to where it takes way less then that now. Got a pulse? Majors are not to this point yet like regionals. How was your interview at Mesa? Phone interview? Yeah I had the real deal back in the days. Today it is a joke at the regional level. As long as you don't have felonies you are in good shape.
I disagree with you on your second point. There is lots of money in aviation. Just not as much at the regionals anymore thanks to one regional throwing the other regional under the bus over and over and over. PSA and Envoy as an example. GoJet, TSA, Freedom, etc. Management always tell you what you want to hear, and tell you what they want you to know, and always make it seem better or worse depending on how it will benefit them. Mesa is private. They have more money in the bank then they claim in the books. If not, then go get it. When crew cancels start American, United, and Delta will have to do something like take back the flying to mainline. That is what I want to see. Long term the regionals are not going to keep going the way they are. Oh yeah, Mesa has money to give 500 bucks a month to future ATP new hires. So there is one example. That should be illegal per the RLA. Maybe it is idk.
Also, how should it be illegal under the RLA to offer prospective pilots an incentive to come to Mesa? Unless it violates your CBA, and the language is lacking in that document to say the least, then it's perfectly legit.
Third, as far as whining, you are wrong, I am mad, very mad. I hate seeing pilots screw each other over. I am the one who is tired of hearing FO's complaining about their promised upgrade, crappy pay, crappy schedules, when they knew full well what they were getting when they were hired here. These quick upgrades are coming from other regional pilots who lost flying because they wanted more money.
I also happen to agree with you on the "perceived misfortunes" for some of these folks getting hired these days. Imagine if they had to endure a true 16 hour day with a reduced rest layover, OMG!
But back to the discussion at hand.....mainline has their portfolio of carriers, and they're pretty good at sniffing out labor strife. Lastly, Skywest, who is not a labor threat, is part of all 3 mainline regional portfolios. Regional airlines have little to no leverage. My only hope is that because recruitment is down we'll continue to see mainline absorb those block hours forcing us to hire more from the regional ranks.
So lets just agree to burn the regionals to the ground and then you will have no reason to work for cheap to get to a major as you would already be there. Then you would actually see my whole point of standing up with other pilots and fighting for a better contract (a real union) and not just the individual looking out for him/herself and ready to screw others over.
BTW, name calling is so easy on here. I don't mean to attack you or any others, I'm just mad you guys don't seem to care about what you leave behind at the regionals or what happens to others at other regionals. I want to leave this place much better then when I came here. If I can't, then lets get every bit of flying back to the majors where we can.
BTW, name calling is so easy on here. I don't mean to attack you or any others, I'm just mad you guys don't seem to care about what you leave behind at the regionals or what happens to others at other regionals. I want to leave this place much better then when I came here. If I can't, then lets get every bit of flying back to the majors where we can.
05-18-2015, 10:30 AM
#7944
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 167
I asked this in the PSA thread, but it applies at Mesa as well.
If an FO upgrades out of seniority order, what events can push him/her back to FO? Obviously, your standard displacement bid can do that. But, as more senior FO's log their 1,000th hour as SIC, can they immediately upgrade and displace the CA's junior to them?
Additionally, as more CA's are needed in future upgrade bids, can those FO's with their 1,000th hour logged upgrade and displace those below them?
I'm envisioning a scenario in which the company stops needing CA's, leaving CA's who are junior to FO's in place for years.
If an FO upgrades out of seniority order, what events can push him/her back to FO? Obviously, your standard displacement bid can do that. But, as more senior FO's log their 1,000th hour as SIC, can they immediately upgrade and displace the CA's junior to them?
Additionally, as more CA's are needed in future upgrade bids, can those FO's with their 1,000th hour logged upgrade and displace those below them?
I'm envisioning a scenario in which the company stops needing CA's, leaving CA's who are junior to FO's in place for years.
05-18-2015, 11:25 AM
#7945
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 774
I asked this in the PSA thread, but it applies at Mesa as well.
If an FO upgrades out of seniority order, what events can push him/her back to FO? Obviously, your standard displacement bid can do that. But, as more senior FO's log their 1,000th hour as SIC, can they immediately upgrade and displace the CA's junior to them?
Additionally, as more CA's are needed in future upgrade bids, can those FO's with their 1,000th hour logged upgrade and displace those below them?
I'm envisioning a scenario in which the company stops needing CA's, leaving CA's who are junior to FO's in place for years.
If an FO upgrades out of seniority order, what events can push him/her back to FO? Obviously, your standard displacement bid can do that. But, as more senior FO's log their 1,000th hour as SIC, can they immediately upgrade and displace the CA's junior to them?
Additionally, as more CA's are needed in future upgrade bids, can those FO's with their 1,000th hour logged upgrade and displace those below them?
I'm envisioning a scenario in which the company stops needing CA's, leaving CA's who are junior to FO's in place for years.
-bending metal or screwing up in some other way
-voluntarily if there's a bump and flush due to base reduction/closure
-to avoid furlough if there are furloughs
Standing bid positions are offered in either seat based on availability. If here are 10 slots available in a base I want to switch to, I can't go there if they're filled (even if I'm senior to everyone there) until either someone leaves, or if they make an 11th slot. You can't be pushed out of a base unless that base or another base is being reduced.
05-18-2015, 11:45 AM
#7946
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 167
Ways you can be downgraded:
-bending metal or screwing up in some other way
-voluntarily if there's a bump and flush due to base reduction/closure
-to avoid furlough if there are furloughs
Standing bid positions are offered in either seat based on availability. If here are 10 slots available in a base I want to switch to, I can't go there if they're filled (even if I'm senior to everyone there) until either someone leaves, or if they make an 11th slot. You can't be pushed out of a base unless that base or another base is being reduced.
-bending metal or screwing up in some other way
-voluntarily if there's a bump and flush due to base reduction/closure
-to avoid furlough if there are furloughs
Standing bid positions are offered in either seat based on availability. If here are 10 slots available in a base I want to switch to, I can't go there if they're filled (even if I'm senior to everyone there) until either someone leaves, or if they make an 11th slot. You can't be pushed out of a base unless that base or another base is being reduced.
05-18-2015, 01:15 PM
#7948
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: 175 Left
Posts: 1,539
I asked this in the PSA thread, but it applies at Mesa as well.
If an FO upgrades out of seniority order, what events can push him/her back to FO? Obviously, your standard displacement bid can do that. But, as more senior FO's log their 1,000th hour as SIC, can they immediately upgrade and displace the CA's junior to them?
Additionally, as more CA's are needed in future upgrade bids, can those FO's with their 1,000th hour logged upgrade and displace those below them?
I'm envisioning a scenario in which the company stops needing CA's, leaving CA's who are junior to FO's in place for years.
If an FO upgrades out of seniority order, what events can push him/her back to FO? Obviously, your standard displacement bid can do that. But, as more senior FO's log their 1,000th hour as SIC, can they immediately upgrade and displace the CA's junior to them?
Additionally, as more CA's are needed in future upgrade bids, can those FO's with their 1,000th hour logged upgrade and displace those below them?
I'm envisioning a scenario in which the company stops needing CA's, leaving CA's who are junior to FO's in place for years.
Our contract is not like PSA's. No CA will be downgraded. However as CA vacancies are announced (and if you are already a CA) those FOs as they upgrade, who are senior to you will jump ahead of you on the CA list in that base. Essentially you could see a long long time as a Reserve or junior line holding CA. RSV CA pay still beats 7+ year FO pay at RAH, XJT, etc.
05-18-2015, 01:20 PM
#7949
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 167
Thanks for the info!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
